anyone ever try levante rear taps for HPs? Curious if there is audible noise floor on sus.
Someone on HF asked for a comparison of totl woo amps to aic so figured I would cross post my answer here:
WA33 - This is honestly the most technically capable amp ive heard. The elite + JPS is a solid step above the AIC even with a G73R. That said, there is a reason I went AIC and not WA33. Personaly, I find that the amp is almost “too true to life” and it makes me end up not ejoying my music since I prefer a bit of added euphony. WA33 I find very very linear, smaller stage, but hyper accurate stage placement. Tonaly it has been fairly dry with every tube ive heard in it. This may be balanced by dac but I have yet to find a combo I truly enjoy just tbh. If I had ot charecterize the sound of WA33 it would be “solid state with the staging realism of tubes, but nothing else”. In terms of tonality, its maybe a very slight hair sweet (talking if 5 is neutral, wa33 is 5.5).
AIC - Just for reference to compare my other opinions. I view the AIC as a bit of a boisterous amp. Grandiose sound, great slam, a decent bit of added euphony and tonal density, but maybe missing out on that final step of raw detail and realism. I also find that AIC seems to trade off a bit of raw speed for its other traits with WA33 and solid state amps like CFA3 feeling slightly snappier and more tactile with tough cans like susvara. Honestly, I find AIC much easier to synergize with without taking things too far as compared to WA33 where I find you need to be real careful to not get too dry or “boring” (boring for me, I do realize some people want to target that sound)
WA23 - This is the only of the three amps I havent had in house and ive only heard it at shows (so grain of salt here). I personaly find it the most exagerated and dynamic of the amps. Fairly sweet with amazing stage and honestly just fantastic sound. It sounds like its up there technically with AIC and wa33, but show and all, so cant say for certain. Frankly, if I didnt have AIC and could use exposed tubes at work, I probably would have tried to buy the show floor unit at canjam socal when i first heard it. I realy like this amp. I keep trying to convince woo to make an estat version of it since the 3es is dryer than the sahara, but jack seems to have 0 interest in doing so.
@orrman currious how my show impressions line up with your impressions now that you have wa23 in house.
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I agree with your wa33 assessment. It’s definitely a wow factor with initial impressions. And upgrading tubes is a pain due to needing quads.
Guess I like a warmer signature too.
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Beautiful descriptors. These are the words I wish I had used when describing the sound of the Alan Eaton 45 mono blocks. Great job. Makes me want the AIC👍
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It’s nice that it’s like that with both headphones and speakers, fantastic option. Honestly I think one thing eskamo didn’t mention that I personally value about it is it’s a bit more relaxed and smoother nature but still great directness and texture, it’s not really sacrificing any of that with a nice enough dac (although with lower end pairings it might seem like it is missing that last ounce from my experience), it’s relaxed but still keeps the energy when needed if that makes sense. Really kinda does everything very very well overall in both what it sounds like and what it pairs like, very impressive in that regard. I don’t think it’s as grandiose as let’s say the egoista 845 in comparison, or as speedy as something like an aforementioned gilmore design, but personally I think the egoista is a bit too grandiose for my tastes, and the gilmore stuff is unnaturally fast, kinda for me hits the right spot of adding just the right amount of flavor without going too far and without really sacrificing much in the process.
I will say that having a good preamp absolutely elevates the amps technically and depending on the preamp can tilt it more toward neutral or more deeper into the richer side of things, personally I like to tilt it a bit more toward neutral with things like the brimar tubes and frontrow cabling, a more neutral preamp to really reach a very satisfactory balance
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one of the crazy dudes on head-fi is preamping the afc10 with a wa23 lol
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Don’t really think that’s crazy, I’ve tried the 3es as a preamp to the aic and it actually worked pretty well, although I wonder how warm it would get with the wa23. That being said if they only got it for preamp duty, that does seem crazy lol
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I just don’t really see the point of having a WA23 and AIC together according to everything I read about the AIC (haven’t heard one yet). I prefer my plan of HM1 and WA23 lol
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I’d assume they’re different enough, truthfully I doubt they’d be all that similar but just guessing on my part lol. In this range of amps, really most things that are described similarly on a base level still tend to sound pretty different. If this was the sub 500 buck amp range, different story though
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I would agree with this tbh. Hm1 and wa23 seems much more balanced than aic wa23. That said, idk how these three stack up on a technical level for certain
different? sure
enough? that’s very subjective
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Everything is very subjective, but reason I say that is because I’ve seen people own both things like the aic and warmer sweeter leaning tube amps like older woo, dna, and stuff along that vein. I owned some sweeter leaning tube amps alongside the aic that could technically fill a similar role to the aic or vice versa, but were different enough to either justify keeping both around (for someone who hoarded them for a bit at least) or because of a wide range of headphones and they filled similar roles for different headphones
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Honestly, I think that older woo and aic are closer together than wa23 and aic. I have kinda had it in the back of my mind since I first heard it that wa23 is like mogwai++++ tbh. I could see someone having them side by side, sure, but idk I would personally (that said, I also don’t haveuch of a desire for 40 amps any more)
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Sounds like the amp for you then lol
Same here, only interested in having a few amps now, with both filling a similar yet at the same time different role or what they’re good at having some shared commonalities but distinct differences as well
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I realy like it tbh. Just a shame I can’t use it at work 
Yah. I currently kinda feel like it would be nice to have two chains (one focused on a more relaxed and romantic sound with another focused on raw incision for kind of hype music), but id rather just have one chain that’s higher quality than split it right now I think. Maybe one day I’ll get a mk 465 to go along side aic (think it would pair well with td, but not positive) but that’s a long ways out since I have like that much to spend in tweek upgrades before I add another source 
Edit: I just realized I still haven’t used Cfa3 with TD. That could legit work quote well as tide me over. Kinda view it as a less refined MK, but I think td will likely calm down some of the issues I have with it and sus.
Don’t even know how 1. they allow that 2. you feel comfortable with that and 3. how you focus on work listening to such a chain lol
If the 465 pairs like the 394 ii, it’s a real nice pairing lol
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That’s how I see my plan with the HM1 preamp into WA23 play out. That’ll give me the small EQ adjustments and soundstage control with both amps. When I want a little sweeter sound and holographic nature of the WA23 I’ll turn it on. When I want the more straightforward and little more leaner fasting directness of the HM1 I’ll just connect straight to it. Still need to figure out if I’m going with both connected to my speakers or just one of them lol
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- They technicaly don’t. No exposed tubes is a self imposed rule to stay under the rader
- Very very strict security in my building with a camera pointing right at my desk. Only about 20 people have access to the room with my desk (including matinence, cleaning crews, etc) at all current and I’m one of the newest. If I move buildings I will need to evaluate what I bring in tbh (will probanaly go back portable for a bit until I feel it out)
- Yah… Definately get distracted by the music some times… Ultimately though, I just listen to different genres depending on what I’m doing. New wave/instrumental jazz works great for me writtinf/reviewing docs and I listen to everything else while doing data work/any programing I need to.
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Has anyone had ears on the headphone out of the Levante? Curious to hear about noise floor with sensitive headphones,etc.
Im spending more time on speakers than headphones and considering including the AIC as part of a trade in vs having both the AIC and Levante.
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While I’ve not heard the Levante, I honestly don’t think if you got one that it would be worthwhile to also keep the AIC, seems redundant. I would expect through the headphone out that it would be similar from a noise floor perspective to the aic, but I can’t say for sure since I’ve not tried it.
I have seen that people report the levante has no noise floor issues even direct off the taps with things like a susvara, and from my experience with the afm 50 I don’t find the noise floor bothersome either, granted you get a more quiet tube.
I think if you like the Riviera sound and want to focus more on speakers, it would make a lot more sense to just go levante or their higher end and not keep the aic around
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