can’t fully agree with that but I do think I know what ya mean hahaha, at least compared to other sets like Utopia and 1266, but ofc source gear plays a big factor
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100%!
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One thing I’ve learned from this forum, is that the real cost of a Susvara is $20K give or take.
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Hahaha!! That’s about right!
I laugh…I cry.
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ofc. I do wonder if maybe I had a mojo/Sw1x/etc dac that this wouldnt have been as much of an issue but with neither the dave or weiss giving sus the magic I wanted on 13R i kinda suspect it wouldn’t have been enough alone.
I flat out just didnt believe @M0N when he went “expect to spend 4-5x the cost of sus on source gear to be worth it” for the longest while. TBH, I kinda just assumed he was being a bit blowhard and acting the same way I sometimes find myself acting when discussing entry level gear (like when someone asks about HD6xx on a zen can and my brain just goes “oof bro”). Safe to say I have come around a bit…
Just to be frank, I would take 4-screw HE6 over sus (even if they were the same price, much the less at the 2-2.5k he6 is currently) on every amp ive heard except AIC-10 (I see why one would take sus over he6 on wa33 as well it just wasn’t my flavor). If you start opening up to other sounds I even prefer D8KP on masskobo 428 to sus on 13R (its not as technical but its not all that far away tbh). Sus is amazing on other setups, dont get me wrong, but it took AIC to make me truly enjoy them myself (and I ran a 13R, the ‘grail’ sus amp most places, with half a dozen dacs over 9 months or so). Before AIC it was “I get why people adore this, I can so see the potential, and its so damn technical that I want to fix it, but I still just dont enjoy it”. Now with AIC its “I really love this”. With AIC and Weiss it was “holy shit, I cant even focus this is so good and enjoyable”
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I flat out just didnt believe @M0N when he went “expect to spend 4-5x the cost of sus on source gear to be worth it” for the longest while. TBH, I kinda just assumed he was being a bit blowhard and acting the same way I sometimes find myself acting when discussing entry level gear (like when someone asks about HD6xx on a zen can and my brain just goes “oof bro”). Safe to say I have come around a bit…
I still have my doubts. Expectation bias is a hell of a drug.
Just to be frank, I would take 4-screw HE6 over sus (even if they were the same price, much the less at the 2-2.5k he6 is currently) on every amp ive heard except AIC-10 (I see why one would take sus over he6 on wa33 as well it just wasn’t my flavor).
This I pretty much agree with.
Now if only I could find a DAC I want to keep that isn’t worth more than 5k…
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Yes. Yes it is indeed. And the whole problem here is that with the sound of the aic so easy to identify even completely blind it makes it hard to rule out if i like it because i know what it is (amd ive been hyped about it for 6 months) or because it actualy is just that much better. Tbh im still not at the point where i would legitimately recomend someone buy one for sus out of the blue but i am at least exceptionaly happ with my own decision to buy it.
Hold on a sec while i call you a shill in the exact same comment i am shilling an amp 
Seriously man. Like i know we are all broken here already, but after hearing what weiss can do i seriously dont want to settle for less. Fingers crossed one of my demos turns up something i like that isnt 5 figure rrp…
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From Riviera on the only Balanced now version: “A special active circuit allows to perfectly interface the balanced signal transmission with the amplifier, guaranteeing the same sound quality from any type of input.”
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So, I just got off the phone with Don Better Audio and I’m told the balanced version has been priced hiked to $20K. I wouldn’t be surprised if the SE versions go up in price on the market from now on either. @_@
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20k? I mean holy shit. Guess im glad i got it when i did…
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20k… that’s honestly too much. If it only adds balanced inputs and otherwise isn’t a step up in sound, I honestly don’t see the worthwhileness, it’s going to be irritating they won’t sell the se only alongside it
I mean if you are spending 15 grand spending an extra 5 is something you could probably do if you really wanted it, but I do think it will put more people off from one given what it will do to used pricing as well
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I flat out would not have bought at new pricing (hell, I wouldnt have ever messaged to try and talk to a dealer). Thats a big ask. I mean at that point you are well past WA33 elite + upgraded tubes even. I mean thats litteraly Lamm ML2.1 monoblocks (used) territory and even well above something like an AC genius
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Sure, but it also competes with that so I don’t think it’s that unreasonable, assuming you mean old new pricing that is. They’re about similar price new, or at least they used to be
That doesn’t include a preamp for those lamms and given what they are, you of course you need a lamm preamp for those and the cost now becomes power amp + preamp which will definitely be over that range. You also assume that it will actually be better for headphones, which it’s all going to come down to the headphone
For the AC it all depends, but there can definitely be some hidden fees when it comes to buying AC depending on where you get it
I get your point though, but if you are going to compare prices, I don’t think it’s fair to compare new prices to used if you are going to complain about new prices. You either compare new to new or used to used, almost anything this high end is going to be cheaper used. I mean hell look at the lamm, that’s like what 35k new but you can pick up pairs for like 12? Most people here already won’t consider almost anything at new price, imo there’s seldom that actually is fully worthwhile at new
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I more of meant in that I already think WA33 Elite is priced a bit too high and this is now even past that.
OT but currious on my part. How well do the D-1 drivers handle them as a preamp? Or is a lamm pre realy needed here?
Yah, fair on all accounts. Speaking of pre, damn do I wish the AIC had a pre option. As a HP amp, just give us no resistor option on teh switch and a pre out instead of speaker taps. Would make everything much nicer (and the AIC easier to req tbh)
oh? Thats interesting. Are there like destination fees and the like? I messaged them about a hellen and they seemed to be just a “we wont realy discount from the price guide more than a few %” but seemed straight forward otherwise
I mean, kind of. There is a set used for 12k GBP currently (~15k USD) so I think its a bit more fair. Plus with AIC, they come up so seldomly and give such small discounts from RRP anyways I think it makes a bit more sense to compare with the use prices of the ml2.1 which seem to have a set pop up every other month or so for the past year (going off of hifishark at least). TBH I wouldnt be supprised if used prices of AIC-10 hopped up to 12-13k with that price jump
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I would agree, but they aren’t the only one raising prices, just everything is going up unfortunately
Tried it, not great which is weird since they are typically pretty awesome, so far from my experience lamm gear is just one of those where you really want to have it together
Like an AFC but no resistor, pure pure power amp
I think it’s easier these days, in the past stuff like shipping and taxes and whatnot would get to you
Would agree
I mean the ML2.1 has been out since the early 2000s, and has a much wider potential buyer range, that high end of a headphone amp is still a small market in comparison. Different goals and purposes
Yes that will suck
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oh, 100%. I’m 100% just looking at my personal use case (which the lamms dont fit anyways given their size) of sus + maybe transformer box for estats. They certainly will be a bigger PITA to deal with than AIC for general use with headphones. Mostly I’m just bitching because AIC-10 had a 13.5k USD RRP in september…
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I do need some more time swapping back and forth (my setup layout makes tube swapping a PITA) and with a proper dac (just using P6 pro currently which IMO is roughly yggy a2 tier but a much cleaner sound), but I think I personally prefer the Tungsram ECC82 red serial double getter support (that was reqed earlier by someone I cant find to tag, ty for the req) over the G73R (I have black text medical). It feels a bit more balanced for the majority of my cans giving a bit more of a classicaly “tube-ey” stage presentation/texture while maintaining quite high technicalities throughout. We will see how I feel about this once I have a propper dac, but for anyone wanting to spend 1/4 what a G73R costs its a damned good option IMO
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Unfortunately, my AIC10 was damaged in shipping, so I went and sent it back in today to get looked at. Hopefully it doesn’t take too long ; _ ;
The issue was a problem with the left channel, barely anything came out of it and what did was muffled and distorted, crackles included, but the right channel seemed fine. Went through a bunch of troubleshooting steps, but in the end, it was just beyond me to check any further.
I waited a long time for my funds and a deal for one to align so I just gotta be patient about it. No way I’m seeking a refund.
As an aside, holy shit is it heavy, and very dense inside. Definitely the heaviest piece of audio equipment I’ve had so far and it was a bitch to get it up and down the stairs.
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@Zaphain That’s a bummer! You bought it new?
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It’s a demo unit, but it’s considered new and included full warranty.
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