Glass shape, metallurgy, if it was a “monday, friday” build… just to tack on a few more.
@orrman Before I bought my Pac2, I was advised with some pre-release news about the Poseidon DAC, and at that time a bit of info about the Poseidon pre-amp was just about to be released. While I have confidence it will be a statement unit and it is targeting the price segment between the TRP and Horizon, at this point there’s still no real experience to validate it’s cost. Plus Lampi is still making the Pacific 2 to order.
On the other hand, to support what @Polygonhell mentioned, let’s just say that those in the Lampizator inner circle are beyond wow’ed by the Pac2 w/ aftermarket tubes. The Pac2 professional review w/ these tubes are coming out soon in a major audiophile publication… and the folks involved w/ that described being ‘shocked’ and how w/ these tubes it may exceed what they thought possible. One question we have now is how the Pac2 w/ aftermarket tubes compares w/ the Horizon.
At this point I am confident the Pac2 can hold its own against the Poseidon, especially if someone prefers the DHT flavor instead of pentode.
4 Likes
Going from the pac1 to the horizon was a pretty substantial upgrade, but I bet with the pac2 getting a lot of the new digital designed from the horizon, I’d probably also bet the pac2 is going to be at least similar level to the poseidon since they’re likely running a similar digital section and similar parts quality, but different sonic focuses with more flavor
4 Likes
Why does it feel like Lampi simply has too many DACs? Give me your best shot, give me a mid point and and entry into the house sound. It’s the tried and true good better best philosophy but man it’s bewildering to keep up. Only other vendor that tops the “gives me a headache trying to navigate the offers” is Totaldac.
I’m kind of excited to be checking out the Poseidon (next week actually) but I’m also way over my head in knowing what I’ll be listening to given that I’m sure it will be chained up to a $100K sum of additional hardware. So what am I really listening to? How would I be able to compare it to any of the other Lampi offers? Do they normally switch (contrast and compare) gear at these high end demos?
5 Likes
Because they did, but I think they’ve gotten better at this point. Now the only things they’re actively promoting and still making are the amber, baltic, atlantic, poseidon, and horizon, which I think is now a pretty reasonable lineup that seems fairly clear to me. Sure you can still special order the big 7, gg, and pac, but they’ve mostly removed that from their lineup. It’s pretty much main line is all pentode, and they have a small dht line that can be special ordered, but in terms of what’s in the main line they don’t have much to conflict with
I think that’s mostly solved recently, it’s just core, tube, unity, triunity, sublime dac wise and that fills all spots nicely while not having conflicting products for sale. I do still think he needs to rename his digital frontend stuff to he more intuitive though (like why is a server called a player)
Well even if you can’t get a good read on the day it should still be pretty interesting lol. Hopefully they switch it out with something for comparisons sake
3 Likes
I hear a DHT flavor and a Pentode flavor, can you clarify please?
1 Like
Because they do.
Especially if you look at the US site, where they don’t differentiate between the currently in development and will still make to order items. None of the DHT based lampizators are still in active production.
The move to tetrode/pentodes is really pretty interesting, and I think has as much to do with where Lukas’s has been going with the house sound as anything else. Triode strapped pentodes have very similar linearity to the big DHT’s, there’s lots to choose from, they don’t have the same complexities in designing heater circuits to get a black background.
It’s more interesting that they are keeping the old DHT designs in production than it is they are moving to the Tetrodes/Pentodes.
Lampizator is also reducing all the options, no SE vs Balanced, no more optional Volume, which will let them streamline production.
5 Likes
The very first Triodes ever made were DHT’s they heat the cathode directly, and there aren’t any small form factor ones. In part because of their size, they are extremely linear amplifying devices, more so that most other tubes (and a lot more than any transistor) but because the heater voltage is provided as a differential on the cathode, any noise on the heater will impact the sound.
With AC heaters for example, while you can null, out the hum a 1000Hz input will have some “distortion” at 1060 and 940Hz. Some people think that’s a part of what makes them sound like DHT’s, but there are amps with DC heaters (I think lampizators have DC heaters) and radio frequency AC heaters (EC Studio), and they are still very obviously DHT’s.
It’s a hard sound to convey if you’ve never heard it, it’s an immediacy of presentation, often gets referred to as DHT magic.
Tetrodes and Pentodes, were designed and made later and have extra grid’s to control the flow of electrons, Basically it’s a form of local feedback, and they get used either Triode Strapped , Pentode Strapped or Ultralinear, which is to say with 100%, 0% or ~40% feedback.
But in any configuration they have very linear plate curves just like the DHT’s.
They just tend to sound more straight up, they can also push a lot more current than most DHT’s, though that has little impact on the lampizators.
4 Likes
Lampizator was always a mystery to me, and I remember being on Audioasylum in the late 1990s when Lukasz was on their chat and he was just starting up. Like many small companies they had to meander and find their way, try different product directions, struggle with quality and reliability, and gain a fan following. I think they managed to have a good enough DAC sound to gain a strong reputation, but the result of this was:
- Iterations of pentode/triode designs
- Iterations of DHT designs
- Slow consolidation of their various products due to fan bases around each one, which conflicted with their different components and serviceability (I know this b/c my old TRP had a volume control that conflicted with their new display units resulting in the need to rebuild the unit, but they took care of me),
- Suboptimal website management
All in all, though, I think many of us feel the messy-ness was worth it since each product was truly a pursuit of love and passion for the best possible sound, just staggered by launch time and his ideas. Thankfully Lukasz did start consolidating recently, and in my mind I think it can be simplified as such:
1: Triode/Pentode line: Amber 4 → Baltic 4 → Atlantic TRP 3 → Poseidon
2: Horizon, which while it uses pentodes is not a traditional pentode output,
3: Niche DHT products, which while are no longer a future priority remains in play due to the legacy DHT fans. These are the: Big 7 mk3 → GG3 → Pacific 2. These have been updated as recently as 2023.
So a total of 8 DACs spanning from $4k to $50k USD, the majority under $10k. My gut tells me that those who went into the $20k Pacific/Poseidon or $50k Horizon came from the middle/entry-level DACs and liked the Lampizator house sound.
Many of us who have owned these units can answer your questions if you want to reach out. I have both a Golden Atlantic TRP 3 (a ‘super’ variant of the TRP3) and the Pacific 2, and I’m trying to draw my own conclusions as to whether I like the pentode vs DHT signature…
7 Likes
I would also add that if you look at the various models within 1 line (e.g. triode/pentodes), there is going to be a variable bell curve spread due to the tube rolling. The “Atlantic TRP (tube rolling paradise) 3” is a great example – there is a 110+ page tube rolling thread on it since it can use SO many tubes, and in my very narrow experience trying different tubes found it made such a /profound/ effect that it can make the TRP a higher class product than its price.
3 Likes
We should probably move the discussion over the the Lampi thread. lol I appreciate your responses and my comment was just more from thinking out loud rather than any real issue with the choices. Variety is the spice of life, so I’m okay with more. It’s just that as a audiophile in today’s online world, it’s difficult enough to understand a house and it’s sound which Lampi’s approach makes even more complicated. I can afford to buy a $10k DAC once it’s had the used price layered on it but the reality is that I can’t or don’t want to try and stretch to that $20K pricing because even when used it’s still a large commitment and it gets harder and costlier to move away from a synergy mistake were one to make it.
The amber 3 was my first introduction to the boutique brand DAC and it’s still a dang good value used but it’s very clear that should you want to “step up” from the Amber line there wasn’t a clear house sound and it’s been governed a lot by popularity and camps or groups that preferred differences. It’s actually commendable of Lukasz that he continued to cater to the various tastes.
My comment was mostly due to going in to a very high end Lampizator DAC demonstration but really not having any idea of what I’m actually going to here.
The idealist in me would like to see these independent brands give me their best and then potentially have a lower entry level attempt at cost cutting their best to offer to those that couldn’t afford the flagship but had a clear path of what could or would come next if you wanted to save for a couple of years and dive into that upgrade. I understand it’s a business first if you want to keep the light on and ideals have to take a back seat sometimes. No one is going to stay in business just selling flagships.
2 Likes
I don’t think any of the lampizators are traditional outputs.
I’m fairly certain the Pacific and probably the other DHT DAC’s use a variant of the SRPP/ mu follower layout with 2 different tubes, the DHT tube providing gain, and the 6N6P acting as a CCS/cathode follower. This is why you can use such a large variety of tubes that would have VERY different viable load lines, without any of them sounding shit.
I’d assume since this layout goes back to his valve CD player mods, that they are all similar in that respect.
3 Likes
Extremely agree here. Get off stock tubes asap. Everything else i tried offered so much more.
2 Likes
Final version looks awesome imo
Also looks like it has two XLR sub outs!
9 Likes
Lampizator plans to make only around 25 more Pacific 2 and after that it’ll only be available as an upgrade to original Pacifics
I liked this interview:
2 Likes
Obviously I’ve never heard the Poseidon, but this is my current configuration of the balanced Pacific2 w/ the Valvo G2504, 2x Telefunken C3G, 2x Siemens C3G, and 4x Philips PT14 tubes, and it is sublime. If my prior DACs were V8, this is V10 or V12 – not necessarily faster, but just more goodness.
I just cannot describe the last nth degree of vocal realism and timbre, but if this is what DHT is about, I’m sold.
In listening to Lukasz’s interview, I think DHT has a special place in his heart if not for how difficult it is to find tubes, and this isn’t just unique to Lampizator. Alas, in this bottomless pursuit, for me it’s worth it. If my house ever burned down and I lost all these tubes, I’d probably give up on audio.
19 Likes
“If you take the absolute value of the LampizatOr Pacific 2, ignoring all else, it stands on its own as one of the best values for performance at that price point. It stands tall against other DACs in the mid to high price range. If DHT is your jam and you’re looking for a DAC then look no further. If you’re looking for a spectacular DAC in this price range regardless of circuit design… look no further.”
I need people, especially these reviewers, to STEP OFF anything using DHT tubes and tubes in general and go back to pandering and swooning over solid state again please. Let’s talk about the sublime sound character and power that only high tech solid state equipment produces and just BACK the Hell off anything to do with tubes…ok 
I can barely afford tubes anymore as is, I don’t need every well off audio geek out there completely scouring every corner of the world hoarding the tubes that should rightfully be mine to satisfy their sick desires because of bullshit reviews like this.
So let’s all calm down, Lampi’s are OK, but let’s not start calling them value kings of any kind anytime soon, you want GREAT go for solid state and be happy…
Tubes are old tech, tube based equipment is OLD TECHNOLOGY, let’s all go out there and enjoy shiny new technology please, nothing in that review should concern any of you…move along please. 
9 Likes
Lampis and all tube gear suck ballz, and the bigger the tubes the more they suck.
They’re fragile and horrible and fingerprints galore.
Plus very not-ecofriendly. We should all just use organic silicon.
Long live Soundblaster!
4 Likes
@keithc BTW, even your adaptors are gorgeous, the top of that DAC is pure porn of the best kind, absolutely drop dead gorgeous…
1 Like