Soul Searching: Adventures In Finding A Long Haul Amp

Sovrce Gear
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Take this more as an inner monologue and practice in thought processes vs a give me suggestions thread.

Right now I am at the part of the hobby where I am looking to finalize my chain, focus on the final tweaks, and enjoy it while saving money for hopefully a 2ch setup down the road.

A few things are finalized as being the main focus, this doesn’t mean something different cant be swapped in but it would need really wow me or hit a specific niche.

Source: Antipodes K50
DAC: Lampizator GA TRP3
Headphones: OG Focal Utopia, LCD-2.2pf (I would also like to try a MySphere, Tungsten, and Atrium again but those arent the focus)

Right now my Studio B is great, but it is bottle necking even with top tubes. And tbh i do not want to mod it for just a little boost here and there. It also hits harder than it’s price suggests and does some things very well. This is great for value but also a curse as you need to make an even bigger leap to keep all the good parts while also feeling you’re gaining a real tier or two in performance.

What comes to mind is the EC Studio T (or M), another Craig Uthus design. The problem is it being out of production and it was very low production numbers to begin with. The one good thing is if i do find one used i can spring for it more easily knowing that if i do not agree with it, the resale will be little to no loss. It is also said to be damn silent which the Utopia appreciates and is something I am looking for at this tier.

Through scouring the internet for amp and tube info for a possible custom option (more on this later). 845s seemed to have a cult following. Way more power than ill need, but maybe future proofing? The one headphone amp that comes to mind is the Viva Egoista. Once again a rarer amp, but it can be bought new. Wait thought, it looks like the new price has doubled in the last few years to… $22k… Ok but used is still sub $10k. Neither are chump change. This would need to be listened to before purchase though and seen in person. I know it is huge with styling that reminds me of a mid 2000s set top streaming box, especially the logo. The power may also be too much to where it most likely does add noise to my cans. As an italian i also question italian made electronics in general, though most of that is old stigma vs actual data.

Outside of these I dont know what else i would pursue. The Riviera looks sweet but I rather stock to a DHT based amp as the main. The Aries Genus looks even sweeter but i do not have room for its size and awkward shape and weight, let alone that ones price. Primaveras look cool as hell but also dont fit unless it is sideways. This leads me to think with the money being budgeted, what about a custom option.

A custom build can hit the spot perfectly, but with all the good parts there are also pitfalls. There is a good outline on custom amp pros and cons here. Luckily I do have some (very) limited experience with at least one builder’s amp. I reached out to 3 builders and heard back from 2 and have had continued talks with only 1. For anyone interested in this route there is a ton to consider that you normally dont think about. I have spent many nights reading diy forums about people’s thoughts on tubes, transformers, topologies, power delivery, and every which theory. Yet I still now very little on how any of these will actually sound. I would love to have my own personalized amp but i dont know if i have enough experience with a wide enough offering to know wtf i am about. I almost feel this is the best option only if you already build your own amps and know all these design specs.

Currently I have WTB feelers out for a Studio T and will continue looking at custom options if now for anything but gaining experience about what goes into that effort.

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Here is another fellow who would be extremely happy to talk to you in detail about building a one-off amp to fill your desires…

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I am VERY sure they would entertain making me an amp. The issue is I have no idea how Tool Sheds sound. That is a catch of the custom stuff. Either find a rather rare piece that matches what you want by that builder or take the leap and pray it pays off.

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@Souldriver I have considered getting a custom amp built as well but have not contacted anyone yet. My inspiration was a user on headfi/sbaf who got an all-out DHT headamp done from Oliver Sayes. But looks like Sayes is on a break these days.

There are a series of threads on Hifihaven focused on custom amp builders. Amazing content. Not headphone focused as expected.

Here are two you can find the rest from the same username

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I think you have to decide what you are looking for in an amp.
What qualities do you value?

I’m a sucker for the big Thoriated Tungsten filament DHT’s, but you have basically the Viva and the Genus intended for headphones. They are always going to be expensive because they require big transformers and very high voltage power supplies.

What headphones are your endgame?
If it’s Dynamic drivers, the Stellaris should be on your list.
If it’s predominantly planars, the list get a lot shorter.
Viva, Genus, Riviera, WA33 Elite.

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There is the other thing that isnt mentioned. So many threads and info is from the mid to late 2000s up to 2015-ish. A lot has changed, places have closed down, people retire or pass, manufacturing changes, new technology alters the game. Sad as many were in Brooklyn or NYC and a quick trip to see in person.

When reading one audio karma thread i followed a guy named Mike who over years documented his journey with a Moth amp. Unrelated on another forum someone said that they bought a used Moth from an estate sale. They then linked the persons AK profile AND IT WAS MIKE! Part of this is seeing how people’s stories unfold and not just their audio journeys. It also reminds me that many who go this path are older and have dramatically different music and sound tastes, which need to be considered.

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This, you said it a bit better than me and this thread is carrying on a but from of our side chats. I just put it here so i can plot my thoughts down and hopefully benefit other.

The bad thing is sometimes i appreciate what an amp does or what I want in an amp once it is gone. IE: The bass i got from the Mojo vs the TRP3, i got the trp close enough but the mojos bottom is still burned in my memory. And not only that, how do you explain that to a builder? It is like translating language.

Speaking of Thoriated Tungsten tubes. Thomas Mayer / Elrog are debuting new tube types. Very interesting. He also offers headphone amps but same issues here, i dont know how to try or where there are any impressions on it.

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I can’t believe this one slipped my mind, the Cayin 300B headphone amp, and there is also a few used Allnic DHT amps on the used boards also. I believe the latter is an integrated with a headphone tap versus the Cayin which is a headphone amp first, speaker taps for convenience.

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FYI a pair of these are €4000……

His products are expensive and his reputation for amps is stellar, I chatted with him recently to build a pre-amp and the cost was close to €9k. It was based on the Compactron Chassis, he then shared his Intrepid line which would be those which would use the 300B would be starting at €20,000+

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a couple of questions and thoughts:

  • what are you hearing that makes you confident the EC is bottlenecking your system? could be any piece of gear including the headphones
  • if you’re thinking your future is in 2ch (saving up money for it) - wouldn’t it make sense to pick an amp that might be able to play that role too in the future? The viva solista for instance is about the same cost as a new egoista these days
  • what do you actually want to improve or change in your current system? you talk about looking for pieces that will stay for the long term and focus on tweaking but maybe you’re at that stage?
  • is there actually a budget you’re trying to stick to?
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When the itch gets you the temptation to scratch just doesn’t seem to go away. Sometimes you can strong-will it into submission for a while but the constant thinking and wondering eventually brings it back. I’m most guilty and don’t make excuses for it other than the pain my wallet suffers and constantly being short of funds :triumph:
Good luck w/ whatever you decide, have fun and pull the trigger when it feels right, there will always be something to capture your curiosity just over the horizon no matter what you do the day you do it :rofl: :grimacing:

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These are GOOD questions and partially why I made this thread.

  1. Good question. The WA23 showed me there was at least one tier above it. How big the changes there were or how worth it there is is also up to the listener. Maybe something else is holding it back, thus me also getting in ICs, trying digital cables and power etc But this is also a chances to get something i like even more in an amp.

  2. Because I do not know how far off that is. TBH i am in denial thinking it may be anytime soon and should sell my Hegel h190 at this point. Thinking the amp can do both does limit speakers selections and i havent put an ounce of thought into 2 ch yet. The comment is more as i will be settled for headphones. I also believe if you concentrate on one aspect you can make that exceedingly good so for this it is headphones. Even having multiple taps off a transformer is believed to be detrimental. To what extent, idk. And it may be a little foolish. If its on a premade amp then so be it, if its a custom build ill talk to the builder about implications.

  3. Ooff that would be a post on its own

  4. Yes, there is a budget. I do not want to post that range here as I want this to be more about thought processes and how I personally go through it. Less of a “suggest me an amp” thread.

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A few things I think where the current chain falls short and I would aim to improve.

  • Space. Right now it is pretty big and grand. While it does not feel exaggerated or unrealistic, there is a vagueness to it. Separation is fine but a more clearly defined outline and blackness between pieces would be appreciated. Overall a more defined and resolved stage. I think environmental queues can tend to get lost.

  • Texture and Tactility. Sure smoothness is nice and I dont want grain, but i feel i am missing some of the grit that goes into playing instruments. When someone moves their fingers along a wound string you should be able to hear and fell that texture. It should be a little rough and those thing are what i remember in music. It isnt just the music coming out and amp but how the musician goes about playing it and the interaction and feel that come with how it all works. While i dont think the EC is a slouch in the treble, i do enjoy the tactility of the little pops and sizzles that come in those registers with sounds like audience applause, rain drops, cymbals. Things that many amps seem to leave out or smooth over.

  • Grip and Authority. While the EC can do it find for the Utopia, it is less so on the lcd. I know it doesnt put out the full power a 300B SET amp can and is rated 2w at 32ohm. That is plenty for volume, but the Radu amp felt like it controlled everything so much better with more muscle. I dont know what dictates this, if it is just power or other aspects like dampening factor.

  • More Better Mids. @NickMimi and @Camus can probably attest, but that Radu amp set a hell of a benchmark of what mids can sound like. Full, weighted, timbre, texture and vocal seduction to spare. Yet clear and precise. In comparison the EC is anemic even with the WE tubes. You get used to it and you appreciate what it offers but i rather have that mid section back. It is also why i am not 100% set on just waiting for a Studio T.

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I also sent an inquiry to him. I was asking about the TM tubes as he just said this years run is live. He seems to not want to sell those without knowing the use case. I can see this as he may want to avoid return/warranty issues on a limited run but he also seems slightly concerned on the price of the amp. I wouldnt want these for the EC, though the elrogs i have now gave me a huge improvement even over the WEs, but if the new amp ends up being 300B based.

I tried to start a conversation with him about a headphone amp since his order thing says to email and he will adjust to what you need. He gave me a price of 11k Euro which is more than i probably want to spend without being able to put it in my chain for a demo first. I was surprised the exchange rate is near 1:1 right now but i also feel his specialty is speaker amps and the headphone stuff is a side thought.

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Just my 2 cents, but I feel like those areas of improvement would be better served through a different headphone. Most of the qualities you mentioned aren’t something I tend to strongly associate the utopia with, at least with what chains I’ve tried and what hps I’ve heard.

I’d circle back to what Poly asked about your endgame headphones. If the utopia are it, then ignore what I said lol. For me personally, I thought the utopia would be my endgame, but I was wrong.

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He requires this for all his tubes, he’s black listed some amps, won’t supply regulators for WA33 for example, because he had a couple of failures and someone sent him a video that showed flashover on power on.

I’d have guessed more than that, given the quality of his builds.

Craigs amps have very conservative load lines, and he’s going for a very linear sound.
The Studio B is not massively underrated for a 300B amp usually 4-8W into 8 Ohms, so 2 into 32 isn’t abnormal. I doubt the Radu was giving you significantly more than that.
The Radu was probably driving headphones from an 8 or 16 Ohm tap, since that’s pretty much what you can buy off the shelf, my guess (based entirely on power ratings) is Craig does basically the same.

The DNA amps have moderately more bloom than craigs, but it’s not the big romantic sound of a lot of 300B DHT amps.

I’m surprised you say that with the Studio B.

You probably need to hear more stuff, I’m going to guess that the Radu was a more typical 300B amp than the EC’s tend to be.

If your set with dynamic drivers, you really should hear a DNA amp.
The Viva Egoista 845 does a lot of what your asking for, but it’s $18K list now, and you will likely have an audible noise floor with very sensitive headphones. I see about 2 a year used listed.
The Riviera could be a good fit, it’s midrange is very much on the rich weighty side, it’s stage can feel a bit constrained in comparison to say the Viva, but it does exhibit exceptional control, and tactility.
There are probably people in your neck of the woods who could help out with demos for those.
There is probably no way you can audition a Genus, and it’s stupid expensive in the US.
Hearing some other 300B amps would probably also be good.

Some of what your asking for is in transformer selection, more expensive transformers have better bandwidth, with translates to more tactility, and air at the top, and better control at the bottom.
The positive being more expensive amps tend to have more expensive transformers, since that predominantly what your paying for.

Thomas Meyer I believe uses the expensive Lundahl’s now, rather then the Japanese made Tango’s he used to use. For pricing reference, the silver wound ones for headphones run about $3K a pair if that’s what he’s using.

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I should clarify. This is rating what the amp does and not the headphone. The Utopia to me can lean a tiny bit cold, but warms up very nicely even just with the dana cable. The comments about the stage and mids are more comparing the EC to other amps ive heard. IE the focal has a very unique intimate stage that i really really like. The amps have dictated more how big that stage is, how resolved it is, and how the ambient cues set things (ie. the radu felt like a big open field almost impossibly big, the EC was more like an appropriate indoor stage). If you have suggestions for other cans i am all ears (no pun).

I also have not jotted down here what i do like and want to keep from the current setup. Which there is tons. Just you know, i need to sleep eventually.

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I checked my manual for the Radu, headphone output is 32 ohms at 6,75 watts.

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Thomas Mayer builds are gorgeous, outside and in. I have no doubt on their sound either. The headphone offerings seem to be just a side set and miss some of the cool design language. Like the moats around the tube sockets.

Radu specs, I dont know enough design wise to philosophy differences:

  • Input impedance RCA : 50kohms, unbalanced
  • Input impedance XLR : 13kohms, balanced
  • Frequency response: 20Hz-20kHz @ –0.5dB
  • Input sensitivity: 0.44Vrms at 1.1W power output
  • Max Input sensitivity: 1.12Vrms at 6.75W power output on 32 ohms
  • Gain max 22.5dB (13.3x)

I think some of this is it may be there, but is kept too low level or not resolved in a way where it us as upfront for what i like. I do remember when i first got the EC that the texture did impress me. Especially it retaining treble detsil. I either got used to this or am a texture-holic.

I really, really want to keep the LCD in the fold. I use it enough and it is unique enough that i dont want to sideline it. I know some other headphones have a similar vibe (lcd-24, the old diannas) but the 2.2 prefazor is my version of kicking back to an old vinyl record on a vintage speaker set up. Its more about the mood and vibes.

There are, or were, or that amp is making rounds elsewhere. The guys over here have been very inviting and ive been a bit cold. I dont like crowds or groups and ive missed some meetups due to work, health, mental hangup issues.

Absolutely. I expect most of my money to go right towards iron and power. I luckily have a bunch of great tubes already. TM has used a bunch lately. Vintage tango, Monolith, some Tribute. A different application but the Lundahl stuff in the mojo showed me what different cores can do. The transformation was marked.

100% on all fronts. Part of this is if i put it in the open i have to follow up and actually do the things.

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I know this is antithesis of your goal, there is a reason I went with another amp for planar headphones. Others may think the DNA is fine with planners, for me it’s a compromise when paired with a solid state amp, or different tube amp. Donald freely admits his amps are designed for dynamic driver headphones.

Something to contemplate if you need to think a bit more outside the box.

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