Schiit DAC/Source thread, Bifrost / Gungnir / Yggdrasil / Urd

[Logarithan]

Is this the correct Goldpoint that I should consider as an alternative?

Emailed their website as it seemed it would be cheaper than getting it on Ebay. I asked if they shipped to Canada. It was funny they sent me an invoice through PayPal I am tempted to pull the trigger. lol

[Towa]

Another alternative is Khozmo, been looking at one of their passive pre for myself actually.

https://www.khozmo.com/balanced_stereo.html

[M0N]

@Logarithan

This Palmer is available on the Canadian Amazon. However, some of the reviews say that there are channel imbalances. Is this something that I should be concerned about? Would it be more beneficial to go with the Goldpoint passive pre?

You might get imbalances at lower levels, although when I’ve used one of those units I’ve never experienced any real problem at normal listening levels

@Logarithan

Is this the correct Goldpoint that I should consider as an alternative?

Yes

@Towa

Another alternative is Khozmo, been looking at one of their passive pre for myself actually.

Those are solid as well for sure

[Logarithan]

Great! I just have one last question to ask then. I assume the Bitfrost 2 signal comes into this preamp. Would no sound be passed through the dac if the Goldpoint was set to 0. Just trying to understand if the more I turn the dial with signal of the dac if it would increase or if sound signal would still come out if the Attenuator was set to zero. I assume that is the case, just want to be 100% sure before pulling the trigger.

Thanks again for everyone’s help!

[Polygonhell]

Just to throw shit in the fire.
I do question the wisdom spending $400+ on a passive pre for a $700 DAC.
Both the passive pre options are good, but that’s significantly more you could be spending on a better DAC.
Having said that it’s nice to have a decent passive pre around, I have a couple, and they get used from time to time.
Anything with a conventional pot will probably have some imbalance in the first 10% of the dial.

@Logarithan

I assume the Bitfrost 2 signal comes into this preamp. Would no sound be passed through the dac if the Goldpoint was set to 0.

It gets shunted to ground through overall resistance of the pot (usually somewhere between 20KOhms and 100KOhms), passive pre’s are just voltage dividers, though I guess the stepped attenuators could go open circuit at 0 volume.

[M0N]

@Polygonhell

I do question the wisdom spending $400+ on a passive pre for a $700 DAC.
Both the passive pre options are good, but that’s significantly more you could be spending on a better DAC.

I’d agree, unless you are running pretty high tier monitors and dacs, the palmer is more than enough imo. The goldpoint and khozmo are nice, but overkill and that money is likely used elsewhere. I just threw those options out more as examples rather than suggestions in this case

@Polygonhell

Anything with a conventional pot will probably have some imbalance in the first 10% of the dial.

Yep which reasonably isn’t going to be a problem for normal use

[Logarithan]

Valid point. I am consider all options. I more want to understand how the gear works. I would like to get the Palmer solution just want to be sure that it would be clean into each channel. I tend to over research things. lol

[Polygonhell]

@Logarithan

Valid point. I am consider all options. I more want to understand how the gear works. I would like to get the Palmer solution just want to be sure that it would be clean into each channel. I tend to over research things. lol

Passive pre’s come in pretty much 4 flavors, the first 3 are just voltage dividers

• Conventional pot, (metal wiper on some metalized or carbon coated film) these are the cheapest and are the same as most volume controls in <$2000 amps. The issue is the coatings are difficult to deposit evenly, and for balanced you need 4 parallel films with wipers, so they tend to exhibit some imbalance where the signal is passing through the least coating, so it can’t get averaged out.
• Stepped Attenuator, You use discrete resistors and a switch to select the resistor for the divider, the switches usually have limited numbers of positions (as low as 24), and that can be problematic, discrete resistors of high quality also get expensive, so they tend to get expensive quickly, but discrete resistors are better than conventional pots and you generally don’t get low volume mismatches. Can be crosstalk between the tracks on the switch, though it’s usually not across channels.
• Relay based volume controls, require power, use a uController (or in some cases a passive switch) to enable relays to pass the signal through various resistors to create a divider, generally will have a lot of steps, susceptible to noise from the uController and to a lesser extent crosstalk on the circuit boards if they are not well designed. trivial to make remote controlled. But again definitively better than an analog pot and potentially better than a Stepped attenuator.
• Transformer based - silly expensive, select output taps on a transformer using some sort of switch, have the advantage they can provide actual gain, introduce the sound of the transformer (which many people like). These are often hand wound transformers by the manufacturers, and tend to get potentially very expensive.

BUT, if you look at the better solutions they just don’t make sense until you start spending a lot more in the overall system, to put it in perspective your G111 probably has a $10 pot in it doing the same job that your asking the passive pre to do for the speakers.

[Logarithan]

Thank you for the info. It is great to be a part of this community with all of the experience that others have that they are able to share with the rest of us.

[TechnicolourDunk]

I’m curious… with all the love going around for the Bifrost 2 how does the Gungnir stack up by comparison? Is it worth near double the price?

[dB_Cooper]

I think a lot of the love for the Bifrost 2 is due to the price range and in the price range it’s in, it shines. The Yggy gets a lot of love because again, in it’s price range and for that next level type of DAC it’s a great DAC.

The Gumbi gets lost in the no DAC land perhaps?

[TechnicolourDunk]

No DAC land for old Gumbi, eh? Interesting.

[Polygonhell]

@TechnicolourDunk

I’m curious… with all the love going around for the Bifrost 2 how does the Gungnir stack up by comparison? Is it worth near double the price?

I have a Gungnir A2/D5 I’ll sell you for $800 if your in the US.

My 2c on this, the Gungnir is a better DAC if you use it balanced, but it’s not by a huge amount. It’s certainly not worth 2x what a BF2 costs. I actually preferred the BF2 single ended, but that probably had more to do the amps in question.

They have different points of emphasis, BF2 is closer to the Yggy A2 sound, more dynamic bass, the Gungnir has more air, slightly more open sounding.

Both are very good DAC’s, used the Gungnir makes some sense, especially given how BF2’s hold their value, new I wouldn’t buy one. And I wouldn’t buy one as an upgrade to a BF2, I’s save my pennies and take a bigger step to do that.

[TechnicolourDunk]

@Polygonhell

I have a Gungnir A2/D5 I’ll sell you for $800 if your in the US.

Sadly I’m one of them “North of the border” types. (Canada)

@Polygonhell

BF2 is closer to the Yggy A2 sound, more dynamic bass, the Gungnir has more air, slightly more open sounding.

Can’t say I hate the sound of this comparison.

@Polygonhell

I wouldn’t buy one as an upgrade to a BF2, I’d save my pennies and take a bigger step to do that.

Fascinating! So get it if one is interested by the signature but not as an upgrade within the line-up. I find this odd for some reason… but given the varying Yggys I guess it’s fine to have an odd duck somewhere in between?

[Polygonhell]

@TechnicolourDunk

Fascinating! So get it if one is interested by the signature but not as an upgrade within the line-up

I bought mine before the BF2 existed, the BF2 was such a big jump over where the BF1 Multibit was, it leaves the Gungnir in a sort of no mans land. As I said it is a technically better DAC, but the step is too small for most to justify.

Because of this I would have expected the Gungnir to get a facelift before they facelifted the Yggdrassil, but given Mike Moffat didn’t think either of the new Yggy’s was significantly better than the existing one, I think it’s going to be hard to position something between the Yggy and BF2, that’s a significant step up from the BF, and leaves the Yggy as another significant step.

[TechnicolourDunk]

@Polygonhell

Gungnir in a sort of no mans land

Comparing at the MSRP how does it shape up to the Denafrips Ares II?

[Polygonhell]

Haven’t heard the Ares, from other peoples comparisons with DAC’s I have heard, I’d guess the choice would be more about sound signature and personal preference than technicalities.

[TechnicolourDunk]

ah, yea, that’s fair. Thank you for your wisdom.

[M.J]

So if a Yggy A2 is the direct upgrade to a BF2… What’s an upgrade in the 5k range new to the Yggy continuing what both of them do? Maybe an Amber3?

[M0N]

Amber 3 sorta, I’d actually personally say something like a mojo mystique or a rockna wavelight/wavedream are something closer to a more direct upgrade to the yggy imo for both signature and technical performance (but still not direct direct).

Ignoring warmer leaning signature, I actually might say one of the berkeley dacs could be an upgrade despite being more overall neutral and no nonsense, it carries along the macro ability and control + power of the yggy while still being reasonably organic.

Totaldac could potentially be a contender but it’s going to be less forward and macro focused and more balanced overall with a different presentation, but it’s something I can still really see someone who likes the yggy liking as well