First I hadn’t even noticed the fact that there was both an AD1862 and AD1865 till you pointed it out, sounds from your description that the AD1862 was the more advanced chip?
Second, it’s hard for me to give you a response as I don’t have experience with a lot of the DACs you’re referring to so can’t give you any direct comparison. That said though I’m not surprised that the V2 is besting the Lampi L4G4. I had both the L4G5 and the Amber 3 and they’re both very holographic but the way I head the stage on those was simply BIGGER, where the Mojo’s stage tends to be more enveloping. Which is one of the reasons I bought into the Mojo, instruments close are closer and instruments far are father so it have a better depth presentation than those older Lampis IMO.
I have old ears and I don’t listen to metal much but what you describe as lacking that sparkle and air, I agree with but I saw it as lacking technicality in the high end, not the high end itself. When I tried the V2 in my 2 Ch I was a bit disillusioned but at that point I was comparing it to a $10k DAC that it was filling in for, not a fair comparison.
I loved the Mojo house sound but for my 2 CH where I don’t want to compromise, I needed more, hence me jumping to the EVO 21 B4B.
I will also add that in my HP system which at the time consisted of a Bryston BHA-1 and the DP8K Pro, it was a much better fit with that missing technicality not being evident at all because of the chain synergy.
I’ll also tell you that I always used it feeding it from a DDC reclocker which further helps. Lastly though the V2 SE showed a good ability to highlight cable differences. A cable that will make that DAC brighter and a cheap cable to get a hold of is the Blue Jeans digital coax. They use Canare crimp on connectors and Belden cable and that’s a cable that will give you quite a bit of high end extension. To me it sounded harsh but it may work for you. Shit if you give me a few bucks for the shipping, I’ll send you one free as I’ve got a couple of them laying about and it may be worth a try.
That said, tell these guys what a masterful job I did with the packaging? LOL
That shit could have survived a trip through the armageddon!
Hahahaha the packaging was immaculate. I was surprised at how much foam you were able to fit into that box and there was no way any moisture was getting in through the industrial plastic wrap. Thank you for that!
The AD1862 was their flagship chip back in the day. 20-bits vs. the AD1865’s 18-bits. I know there are more differences than that, but that’s the biggest one on paper. I’m sure the differences aren’t that big and I’m pretty sure Audio Note uses the AD1865 in all of their DACs, regardless of level. Side note, this page is great for basic info on the retro DAC chips. It’s just a list of all the model numbers from the major brands and a bit of Russian-ified information about each.
I totally agree with what you said regarding the stages. “Enveloping” is absolutely the right word. Before the Mystique, the Lampi sounded very 3D, deep, and holographic, especially compared to lesser DACs that don’t handle those aspects as well as the Lampi. But now, the Mystique has exposed the Lampi as being more 2.5D than 3D and still quite congested in busier passages. The layering and separation of the Mystique is unlike any other DAC I’ve heard. The Lampi was a big step up in that regard, but still falls so short of what this low-end Mystique is capable of.
I’m curious about the Blue Jeans coax cable. I’ve heard of the brand but never looked into them much. I’ve got my ROCK feeding a Matrix X-SPDIF 2 using a Pine Tree Audio USB cable (which made a noticeable improvement over the AudioQuest Diamond cable I previously had, despite being 1/14 the cost) and with an iFi USB Purifier3 going into the X-SPDIF 2. I’m using a Better Cables coaxial then to go from that to the DAC. Based on the fact that changing from Better Cables Silver Serpent 2 to the Pine Tree Audio hexabraid cables for all my interconnects made enormous improvements in SQ, I’m guessing BC’s coax is leaving a lot to be desired as well.
I’m interested in one of your extras if you’re serious. How long are they? I need about 1m for my setup.
Did you experiment at all with power cables as well? I’m using Pine Tree Audio Iso-Braid cables on everything but the power amp, which has a PTA Stealth 1000 cable instead, as that was recommended for devices pulling heavy electrical loads. I’ve got Stealth 1000s going into the wall from all of my power conditioners as well. Some devices are responsive to power cable changes, others not so much. Just curious.
And so, I’m kind of reading between the lines here, but I’m taking it then that the EVO 21 B4B has much better, more technically capable highs than the V2 SE?
I would say after a day it is 90% of the way there, the last 10% came after about 3 days of continued on time. To me the last bit helped the mids feel less compressed, like letting the belt out after a big meal.
Yep. The owner Ben has stated basically dont expect the dac to save you. There are no tricks or interpretations, just more ao translating what it is given. This probably explains the bass synth feel as well.
I could see where youre coming from. I think a bit depends on the entire chain. With the BHC+SB i didnt feel this, Decware Taboo felt like highs were EQed out, the Shiny Eyes was better but could feel like it had lesser highs, the Studio B is the sweet spot. I only use headphones at the moment.
I can see this description and how you get there. I dont know how to describe it exactly but i think this is a good way to view it.
Yep. I have their toslink optical and their rca interconnects and i have no issues with either. They can be found used easily too but new they are pretty economical. I view them as a solid baseline and easy to judge pieces with. Most people have heard them so its an easy comparison point as well.
The latest Mystique X (which I have) uses an 1862. I have no idea if that’s good or bad LOL.
I haven’t noticed any sparkling highs missing, but we have different chains. Also, since I don’t like bright treble, there’s a chance that what I call just right might be what you might call missing sparkling highs. Do you have a particular song I should try?
If you want a budget coax cable, you might consider the Pangea Premier SE, which is on sale at Amazon for $40. I broke the connector on my much pricier Snake River Boomslang last week and bought the Pangea as a cheap backup to tide me over while I’m waiting for my cable to be fixed. I addmitedly had low expectations but it sounds fine to me, maybe a little brighter then the Snake River (based on memory), but I won’t be able to compare them until I get the fixed cable back.
In this Audiobacon coax comparison, he really didn’t like the Blue Jeans, preferring the much cheaper Monoprice if you wanted a budget cable. But it might be a YMMV situation if your preferences don’t align with his, since you’ve stated that you like more a studio neutral sound and he tends to prefer a little warmth.
Two songs in particular that I noticed this happening in:
The Ghost Inside: “Test the Limits”
Every Time I Die: “Desperate Pleasures”
For those two songs specifically, cymbals almost always sounded behind and below and more of like a background detail rather than an integral part of the drum kit. Not necessarily the case if the drums were more prominent in the mix (e.g. the intro to “Desperate Pleasures,” but once distorted guitars, bass guitar, and vocals come into play, cymbals take a backseat in those songs.
I had to strain to hear/notice them and I can’t recall ever having that issue before, except with the HD6XX and Atticus. Maybe it’s more source-related than DAC related, though, as music that was recorded and mastered well sounds wonderful and doesn’t have these issues, or if it does, they’re not anywhere near as noticeable. I didn’t have any issues with any of the NIN tracks I used, though there weren’t a ton of cymbals in any of the tracks I listened to. But when they did appear, they sounded correct.
Maybe this is just something I need to get used to in terms of the presentation; perhaps the other DACs haven’t been as realistic/accurate as the Mystique and now it’s just training my brain to account for the more spatially correct placement of them in the mix?
The new, yet to be released or announced EVO is supposed to be BurrBrown PCM63 based. If the BB-PCM1792 from my Cowon Plenue S is anything to go by then it’ll be a winner. Though the cowon uses a bunch of tricks and is almost the opposite of the Mojo philosophy.
Oh hell yeah. I saw his announcement back in 2020 or whenever it was that he had secured a bunch of PCM63 chips and was planning on an EVO variant using those, starting at $15K and I was very excited for its release.
I really hope he gets that back on track; the PCM63 is one of the best DAC chips ever made. His implementation of it would likely be legendary.
Also really helps it scale with nicer digital sources as well which is nice, just keeps getting better the farther you go streamer/server/ddc/what have you wise
Honestly somewhat disappointed about this but at the same time not worried in the slightest lol. I’ve never personally found myself owning many PCMxx based or other burr brown/ti chips and found that most of my favorite chip based dacs have been almost exclusively analog devices chips, but over time I’ve also realized the chip really doesn’t mean jack and it’s all in implementation so I’m sure really regardless of what chip ben uses it’s going to be fantastic lol
Okay, I think the DAC just hadn’t been fully warmed up or something. Listening again now, the TGI and ETID songs sound wonderful. Cymbals are very present and audible in the mix. Everything sounds a bit more balanced overall as well.
The highs might not be sparkling exactly, but there is noticeable shimmer and texture to cymbals in these songs that wasn’t there previously.
I’m loving this DAC!
EDIT: the amount of microdetails this thing extracts is INSANE.
I’m a big proponent of these used $1~1.5K DAC and are they meaningfully mo’ better than new DACs in the same price range? IMO the answer is a resounding it depends what one is looking for. But from a perspective of the audiophile experience, there’s a lot more good synergy potential buying these used older DACs.
I know it’s not a popular or anywhere a general opinion though especially for folks starting out in the hobby that wind up throwing good money at the hyped giant killers that buy into the all DACs sound the same anyway spiel.
One thing that I’m a little confused about is the fact that you guys are reading or hearing or even repeating Ben saying that they are unforgiving of source.
I’ve found myself skipping less songs than I’ve ever had with the EVO B4B in my chain, but then again I’m also heaving the dCS streamer > Mojo signal path for the first time. I’m very happy with it, as it sees like it scaled VERY well with the improved source.
I think it was a mistake on my part. I’ve listened to a bunch of stuff, including a few albums that are on the rougher side of production and they’ve all sounded incredible.
It’s been pretty cold here in CO lately, maybe the DAC was really struggling to warm up.
Just played “Bejeweled” by Taylor Swift and this DAC is sparkly as fuck when the production is right, I guess. I’m astounded how good that song sounded.
This sounds like a vastly improved DAC from two days ago. I can’t stop smiling. I can’t believe how much more revealing this is. I am so happy with this purchase!
Just not always easy to find that sorta stuff, hard to get solid info on a lot of the older used dacs in the range which put people off from some of the great stuff hiding in these ranges lol (but there’s also a decent amount of crap as well)
Yeah hard to get any helpful advice at all lol
I personally don’t think it’s unforgiving, but it will show what source it’s got and can scale quite well, and it takes on the characteristics of what feeds it reasonably well. I do think it’s a somewhat forgiving dac music wise, but a bit more picky on the digital source rather than the music. So my experience with it being unforgiving is only if you don’t really have a decent digital source to feed it with, and even then in the context of most dacs I’ve tried I’d put it more on the forgiving side than not. So I’d rather just say it’s receptive to better digital signals and scales than call it anything unforgiving
Glad it worked out. I forgot to reply to you yesterday because I listened to those 2 songs and the cymbals certainly had enough sparkle for me, and were also integrated into the drums. But then I got sucked into the music…
I have to say I really liked both of those songs you listed. I’ve not kept up with metal since the 90s, other than trying a death metal song every now and then and deciding it’s not for me. But those 2 songs were really enjoyable, and seemed musically adjacent to music I do listen to, like NIN and My Chemical Romance. I tried to look up the genre and came up with Metalcore/Mathcore/Post-Hardcore, none of which means much to me LOL. Do you recommend any other bands?
You’re right here, I didn’t just dive in to the purchases I’ve made, I’ve had a good amount of experience and like many others I’ve leaned a lot on you for just about every major purchase I’ve made and you’ve not given me wrong advice. But I’ve had to learn what questions to ask in the first place. That’s why it tough to skip large portions of the early hobby because that’s where you sharpen your teeth and really get a sense of preference. So far I feel I’ve had wins in the Lamp L4G5 and with the Mojo V2 SE, which I pulled the trigger on my own but also knowing what I was going after and that it wouldn’t be something that would be impossible to flip or that would just be shit. @Souldriver is the one that has that lane covered.
From a completely different perspective, it’s also nice to get something completely different. Just because you don’t like something or don’t have a preference for something doesn’t mean it won’t grow on you or wind up expanding your listening palette.
I’m rambling now but I guess it’s a process of being in a place at the moment where my system is feeling close to complete. I’m just enjoying that.
Oh man, no worries! And I’m so glad to hear you liked those tracks. Both of those bands are fantastic. Some consider Every Time I Die one of the best in the scene and it’s a true shame they broke up in such spectacular fashion last year. Mental illness is no joke.
Anyway, if you liked those two, the rest of their catalogs are both fantastic. Other similar bands: The Devil Wears Prada, Knocked Loose, Bring Me The Horizon (their newer stuff is kind of all over the place, but Sempiternal and earlier should be up your alley for sure), Architects (their two latest albums are buttrock; I like everything before Lost Forever // Lost Together), Norma Jean, August Burns Red, ERRA, and Enter Shikari to just to name a few.
And metalcore is music with elements of both metal and hardcore. Post-hardcore bands incorporate lots of stuff outside of hardcore into their music (Enter Shikari is a great example; they do a lot of electronic stuff as well as harder-hitting songs).
Idk, i feel most things i liked or had a good recovery on. The Walnut dac and Questyles i got my money back on but it took a while, the taboo i went for knowing the used market loves them with the long wait for new builds, the Shiny Eyes was just on loan as i basically got a try out and consigned for Nick (i am actually very happy that stayed in community and i may hear it again), the mojo i am just moving up.
I am thinking this with the V2, i want to put it at the pc to replace the BF2, then sell the BF2. But whats a used BF2, $500 to my pocket? Trading in the v2 is $1250 back to me, the $750 difference isnt worth it for me to get the pc audio slightly nicer or deal with windows usb audio headaches. But darn it is nice and i want to keep it.
