@M0N to elaborate a little. When you mention tubes it seems like you are leaning to just roll stock. Is this because you want to hear what the builder originally intends fir it to sound like, dont want to spend money/time rolling, tired of tube hunting, other?
For me I usually look for 1 or 2 tubes that are “vetted” by others and are not ridiculous priced nos to try. IE: for the Atlantic the Genelex gold lion KT77 productions are noted as top notch and are $100 a pair. GEC KT66 are supposed to be a step above, but at $600 a pair I am going to forget those exist.
I think the build is likely to be significantly improved, but looks wise I kinda like the style of the older ones a bit better. But doesn’t really matter as long as it sounds the part lol
It’s more because it honestly isn’t something I want to get fixated on. If a design sounds bad or not the way I like, a tube change can seldom change that, I already have to like the way it sounds beforehand. I just think that there’s likely compromise made in the circuit by design to allow good results with many different types of tubes, and I have to wonder if there could have been better results if the circuit was optimized for one specific type. Because while swapping all these different types of tubes is cool and all, the rest of the product will be a larger determinant of sound, and also tubes are more set and forget anyways, it’s not like it’s feasible to swap them out album to album
I just don’t want to have to deal with the hassle of trying all different types to find the “perfect combination”
I mean hell even in the picture that was taken for the product, he threw that elrog 274 in there not because it actually sounded good, but just because he liked the way it looks, he much prefers the kr rk 5u4g in that design. Then why picture it like that if it’s not that great? Just one of those things where I wish he gave a select few tube complement options and didn’t try and urge people to try out 10000 combinations just because they can
I’ll try some combinations, but it isn’t going to be that many, and I’ll just settle on what I like. Otherwise I’ll just be throwing money down the drain most of the time on just trying all these tube types, most of which I won’t use again. People just get too wrapped around the fact that something has tubes, and even more focused on the fact that they can change them
So it’s just something I don’t look forward to messing with, Will it likely bring me different experiences and change the sound of the dac? Yes absolutely. Will it actually make the dac significantly better? Probably not, perhaps different, but I don’t think a tube swap will suddenly make something compete with something it didn’t before. But who knows, all depends on the design lol
A set of tubes for DAC’s and Amps at this level is going to cost you >$3K,it disincentives rolling, my Pacific came with over $10K of tubes the original owner had tried.
The problem with Lampizator supporting such a wide variety of tubes is that one EL34 doesn’t sound like another EL34 doesn’t sound like any 6V6 doesn’t sound like any KT88 or KT120 etc etc.
So where do you even start?
You end up being neurotic, and convinced your not getting the best out of a $50K device.
Tube rolling in the pacific, does give you a way to balance dynamics vs stage and tonal weight, but really who wants to spend 10’s of thousands of dollars trying to figure out what’s optimal.
I’ve built up quite a tube collection from getting things with extra tubes from the past owner, and that’s really the best way to do it. Let the previous owner figure tubes out for you and not care about it afterwards. Unless you find you like the sound but wish it tilted in a different direction. But if you are happy with the sound, don’t touch it
Also, with the Pacific, I tried many tube combinations, and what do you know the ones that basically came stock (as an option) ended up sounding the most preferable to me
I think mine shipped wit the 242’s, and that’s what I prefer, I know you run the PX25’s, they were a close second to me and none of the sets I tried would have put me off, but not knowing if you have the right set would drive me nuts.
I think that’s just something you have to come to terms with in audio in general, the idea that you won’t find a “perfect” setup, and also the idea that you will likely seldom ever get the “most” out of your current gear. And also that what you might want will shift overtime anyways. Just have to learn to call it a day if you are happy at some point, after that you will just be changing for the sake of change. There is no “right” tube choice, all depends on your setup and what you want out of it
Oh I get it.
But I can live without a voice in the back of my head trying to convince me to buy another $2000 set of power tubes or spend another $1000 on a recitfier.
Wouldn’t stop me buying one though, it’s just annoying there are so many variants it supports.
I suspect having never heard one, but based on the other Lampizator DAC’s and my Pacific choices, I’d be looking at KT88 or 120’s rather than EL34’s or 6V6’s. But it’s so hard to generalize about the sound of tubes.
I likely would as well. And I’m not even going to think about the rectifier, it’s going to be the kr rk 5u4g without a doubt, that was second to none by a large margin when testing in the pacific, I have no doubts it will be the same in the horizon. I’ll also likely grab KR RK KT150 RK and then dip into some of my nos 6sn7 reserves.
Oh god now I sound like I’m getting a horizon lol, not planning on it for now
Honestly the nicest thing about the tube options of the pacific was that it has no input tube, stuff like good 6sn7 are really hard to find at this point. For rectifiers and a lot of bigger DHT new production has beat a lot of the old production imo, but that hasn’t happened with smaller input tubes
Also rereading some of my previous posts, they might be a bit salty, sorry about that lol
I think then were all mostly on the same page here with letting previous owners or the lucrative few from other forums do the $$$ tube swap try outs.
Also, yes device design > tube selection and tubes rarely, if ever save a bad design. And speaking of design…
Playing a little devils advocate. The lampis may well indeed be tuned and intended for their stock tubes, but octal tube types are probably some of the most common. There is also such a wide variety of tube types that swap right in there why not promote it as a nice big bullet point? Maybe psvane el34 or whatevers are exactly what the circuit is tuned for but if you can say it does more or lets people tweak to their liking, then to me so be it. Trying to put a huge number about “ThOuSanDs oF cOmBiNaTionS.” is a bit disingenuous IMHO but i wont lose sleep over it. Plus think of the thousands of hours waiting for tubes to be broken in.
For small tubes i have a theory. Since you can make very pretty, clean classy looking new production big tubes i think there has been more effort there. The small tubes all look like they were found in the back of a junk draw so its harder to market.
There aren’t really intended for stock tubes for most lampi, and don’t really have true stock tubes, but there are some tubes from KR that were specifically developed with lampizator in mind
I’d be a bit worried to do that as a creator of something since I’d be worried about increased cost from the likely more failures that come from people swapping weird tubes in, seems like more risk to take on from both a cost of returns/repair and also public image if someone does something stupid and tries to blame the manufacturer for their stupidity.
I’d also be a bit worried encouraging every tube that fits, since that could do multiple things, 1: create more inconstancy in user and reviewer feedback which typically isn’t a good look, when most people see fairly different opinions on things all around, it’s not a good sign for consumers typically. 2: it doesn’t really ensure some level of quality, someone could put some pretty bad tubes in there and make their experience worse to where it’s not as favorable to them which could result in bad press or less sales
I’m not saying it’s not something that shouldn’t be done, I just personally wouldn’t encourage it so much if I was running a business
I’d guess it’s more down to the fact that DHT are more expensive and mainly only used by high end audio at this point, and also made in lower volume. So they can actually get returns in investing R&D into making new high end DHT designs, and due to them being lower volume are more feasible to make for the time being. But idk.
@Veritas I’m opening my Amber 3 and heard you have done it before.
I had a quick question about it.
I successfully took off the screws on the bottom sides, the back sides, the back top, and the front top two screws. But when I slide the top metal plating off it gets stuck to something after coming off about 1/4 of the way, almost like a band or bungee holding it on.
I’m changing out the tubes as Lampizator themselves informed me to since it is not working correctly.
