I would get that the chain makes a difference but if I’m using both types of headphones on the same chain… Youknowwhatimsayin?
At that point, wouldn’t it just be reduced down to the headphones’ engineering?
Do you guys rock separate chains for both types of HPs?
Im gonna see if i can maybe demo a Focal or Kennerton or something and bring it home. I think that’s the smart thing to do
I think they both have their place and a lot of it comes down to what you value in sound.
Mechanically Planars and more so EStats have lower moving mass, but they are less of a point source, dynamic drivers can also have much bigger excursion and hence move more air, whether that’s good or bad probably depends on your design objectives.
As for depth of stage I can’t say I have found one driver type better than another, but like everything else in this hobby people hear it or even define it differently. I do think that some Planars, ribbons and Electro Statics can have an almost Ethereal feel which I’ve never really gotten from a dynamic driver.
I do tend to agree the Utopia is pretty easily the best dynamic driver headphone I’ve heard.
Some chains don’t really play as well with some headphones, the Utopia in particular can be pretty fickle. But it’s easy enough to find chains that work well with both. At lower price points it’s harder to find tube amps that play well with some lower impedance planars.
What headphones specifically are you comparing.
The higher end ZMF’s do a decent job of staging, especially the ones with the denser woods.
The last comparison I did was with the:
DT-1990 Pros
HD600
R70x
Vs.
T60RP Argons
There’s a song from The Fight Club soundtrack called Medulla Oblongata that I often listen to.
It sounds such that with the DDs, they will present a certain sound being farther away by squishing its stereo closer together, BUT they still sound like they are a similar distance as everything else playing in the track.
The Argons, however, make it sound like things are actually farther away from each other. Whatever reverb is on that sound, it will silo/separate and play it in spades.
This isn’t to say DDs have zero depth
I probably should’ve clarified what i define as depth.
EDIT: i could mention other headphones, but i don’t think its fair cause i haven’t heard them on my chain.
I think it’s more a question of the headphones you tried rather than anything driver specific.
The T60RP doesn’t even really sound like a typical planar (I haven’t heard the Argon version).
The HD600 is very 3 blob on presentation.
Topic revive time
Is the 3 blob presentation phrase used to depict something that applies even on a higher chain?
For the longest time the 3 blob was all I heard on my hd650 (never had 600), I used magnius, little dot mk2 (fully solid state sounding tube amp), then I upgraded to RNHP and Burson Funk and my dac to a pro-ject s2 digital (nice $500 dac)
The 3 blob was very real, and It also felt wall-ish of sound. The depth was very poor or non existant.
But It was when I got my BHC+S that the 3 blob concept on the hd650 sarted melting away, specially after I upgraded tubes.
The wall of sound was gone, I could still hear the 3 blob concept but it was getting shaky and then…
I sold my hd650 because it was too clampy, I switched to ATH r70x which is quite similar in many ways to the hd600, and upgraded my dac to bifrost2 + DDC.
I could no longer (or barely) hear the 3 blob concept, and I think it would have been the same with the hd650.
…..
Now I have a matrix xsdif3>exogal comet plus running to either woo wa3 with rca 60’s black top drivers and 6080 mullard, or a Quicksilver HA with 60’s amperex drivers and telefunken for power.
I cant hear a 3 blob at all in the ath r70x, or the akg k612 or anything for that matter except for the koss ksc75.
Im pretty sure If I used an hd600 there would NOT be a 3 blob OR am I just understanding the 3 blob concept wrong?
What we can build with a dac and amp budget of 3000$ for an LCD4 200ohm (tube amp preferred). Sonic goal is rich - midrange - dynamic (not goey and muted). Used or new doesn’t matter, just 3000$ well spent.
((Streamer and other things have a different budget)).
Not sure for this budget is just better to go Violectric v281 instead of tubes for the sonic goals above?
“Wall of sound”. What is everyone’s interpretation of this term?
I have read it a few times around here, both used as a positive and a negative term to describe sound. I believe this is only in part due to preference. I also think it is partly due to people’s different interpretations of the meaning.
It could any of these in my mind:
First interpretation - A sound stage out in front of you that extends as a flat plane left to right, like a brick wall you’re standing in front of. This would mean more central sound sources were closer to you and left/right sound sources are further away - much like you’re sat in the front row of a concert and the musicians are all positioned along the stage in a line, shoulder to shoulder, parallel to the edge of the stage edge. There may be some difference in perception of depth, but not enough of a range to dispell the overall sense of a flat wall of sound.
Second interpretation - A sound stage that can be flat or curved that is saturated with sound. Sound sources are distinct but bleed into each other in a natural or unnatural way. Effectively, there’s no black void in between very sharp, clearly defined sonic images, it is instead a stage full of sound, grand or not, deep, wide, etc., there is no “nothingness” found in between instruments. There is potential for a greater range of depth in this interpretation and isn’t reliant on stage shape or size, either.
There’s a third was to think about it, and that it when gear is very forward. To me it means in sounds my face, up close - central sound sources sound in front of me or even in my head with left/right extending in line with my ears, each side of my head. Something can sound narrow or wide but in being forward, it sounds like a flat sound stage to me with no depth. This is where mind goes when I think of wall of sound given my recent DAC testing, but in reality it is just a sub category of the first interpretation, you’re just closer to the stage - this was my experience with Cyan 2.
I’m particularly curious to hear @M0N’s definition as reading some of his impressions has previously scared me away from certain gear due to the use of this term.
I don’t think it’s an inherently good or bad thing, it just is a specific sound lol. Personally I think it’s a blend of what you’ve said for the most part, you get that more immovable sort of stage that’s consistent, dense and saturated, more restricted in positional location/space that things can be, maybe lacking a bit of depth or width but forcing the stage to fit it’s predefined proportions, and I would also say generally more forward and up front sort of sound that just leads to the image of sitting in front of a wall of sound where things can come from rather than being enveloped into the space that you’re listening from. It’s a more colored way of presenteing space that can be fun and work well with some systems and some music, not others. Whenever I’ve said the term in the past, it’s not something that I’ve treated as a strict definable term and more just the impression I got when actually listening to it lol. I may speak a bit more negatively about this trait personally, but that’s also just because it’s not my personal preference and doesn’t work well with my specific setups, but all depends on the person and setup
Thank you for your input! Where I was most interested in your comments were your impressions from listening to Sonnet DACs (and maybe Metrum). I’m particularly curious as I now have a Pavane L3. It’s not even fully warmed up yet but I want to better understand what I’m hearing and how to express it.
It’s also very important to state description based on whether it’s from a HP or a 2-CH. things have a funny way of translating between the two mediums and not always consistently. I know you’re mostly HP but something to keep in mind as you read through people’s descriptions.
Wall of sound can be deceptive in its quality. I recently listened to a large complex and particularly expensive system at the CAF show in DC and it was a BAD “wall of sound” the speakers were isolating, the soundstage was wide and tall but extremely flat with no depth forward or back of the speaker plane. The volume was loud which enhanced the presentation of a wall and the separation was very fuzzy/mushy. 
it was absolutely a Wall of Sound though, you could not deny that aspect.
I sat there and listened as some folks praised the qualities of the equipment. They were clueless, i shrugged my shoulders, i know what i was hearing was NOT good yet there were some folks paying compliments. I don’t know what to say, but choose to share my experience w/ you reference your topic. 
…and that system that @NickMimi is talking about cost more than my house, I’m pretty certain of that.
Is the Avija on anyone’s RADAR?
I’m part of a tour and it’s gonna arrive in a week or two. I’m just hoping my Wavelight arrives by then!
It’s thirsty, comfortable and so far, sounds good! It is described as being dark tuned, a spiritual successor to LCD-4 but without the flaws. I can’t comment on that I have no experience of the 4, but first listen, it does strike me as well-balanced.
Anybody know of a similar product to the IFI iematch but for XLR connections?
hmm if you don’t find, you can use 4.4 iematch with adapters no?
Oh yeah, that could work.
Thanks for the links!
Was trying to find a way to use my yhc3000 on my amp with useable volume. It’s more adapters than I’d want to use, but seems like this might be the most practical solution without changing any gear.
I reviewed Bandoss Avija for anyone curious about that can:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/bandoss-avija-precision.28527/reviews#review-41187
Excellent well balanced review.
Hello, im trying to help out a friend pick his next headphones, but he is very very impulsive Id like to get a recommendation even tho I dont have much info.
His current goal is to get some warmer (not excessively) for relaxing sessions, either open or closed. Since he already has the utopia OG and Stellia for more detailed listening.
We have no idea on which synergies would work (Feliks Euforia) but his top picks right now are Meze Elite and ZMF Caldera (maybe he wants to try a planar) but im sure he just doesnt know what to pick.
Completely open to suggestions tho. Any Abyss is off because of seal and comfort.
Theres a 2.2k Meze Elite on HF right now but I told him he should research a bit more.
He currently uses a Hugo TT2 as a DAC to his Feliks Euforia PRO:
6AS7-G RCA classic 1950 for power.
6sn7(GTB?) Tung Sol 1960 for drivers.
Lower mid tier tubes with good tonal balance, creamy/slightly warm, detailed-ish.
I also suggested to improve his tubes a bit but he really likes the combo as is, plus he can do it later.
Thanks. I hope you guys have some suggestions!
