I say look for the crunch (bite), speed (PRaT), decay/reverb, and the distortion of the guitar sounds it makes. I also link easier quicker songs (but it’s Japanese songs) that do a good job of what I like in a guitar (electric and acoustic). They are shorter too and a lot easier to find what sound you are looking for.
あのバンド - 結束バンド or That Band - Kessoku Band Open Qobuz
^ This song is really easy to do a test since the electric guitar is always in your right ear. There is a support electric guitar (left ear), but the main guitarist is in your right ear.
^ This one just focuses on acoustic guitar. For acoustic guitar, I am looking for a nice bass sound of the acoustic guitar (to get a good grasp of the entire sound of the acoustic guitar) and decay.
The video I link below should give a good idea of what an electric guitar will sound like. Just skip to tuning and amp settings.
I also feel like PRaT is a debatable word. Here is 2 definition that I always keep to help what PRaT sounds like:
PRAT: Pacing Rhythm and Timing. If it takes a lot of power for a headphone to sound right and you take power away, the timing of the driver won’t keep up with the material. This throws off the PRAT. Listened to IEMs with no amp and then say a K701 on the same player. Large driver hps are impacted more than iem/bud/stats. (Musical energy)
PRAT: I think it refers to how impactful a headphone articulates the rhythmic aspects of music playing through it. A headphone with weak PRAT can sound thin and cerebral, but a headphone with stronger PRaT lets you feel the rhythmic vibrations more.
Yeah, PRaT is a weird word for me. I think it originates from the audiophile community and I don’t think I ever got a straight answer (everyone always has their own definition for PRaT) of what it really supposed to mean. So the 2 definition I posted was the ones I settled on. I like describing PRaT as a musical energy and that feels like it makes sense, so I roll with that definition. Then, I started questioning myself, “wth does musical energy sounds like.” So, if it makes you tap your toes, I guess that’s PRaT lol.
Now, I feel like electric any instruments are a curve ball when describing timbre. I am not too familiar with the other electric instruments, but the electric guitar uses distortion to create its sounds. Without distortion, it’s pretty much a lesser acoustic guitar. So it’s really hard to tell one person what an electric guitar is supposed to sound like with just 1 song. There are so many factors in creating electric guitar sounds like guitar tube amps, guitar ss amps, different guitar models, bottleneck guitar, etc etc. I feel like crunch (body of the electric guitar sound/electric growl/screech), speed (PRaT, important for fast songs like metal for the headphones to keep up), decay/reverb is the main thing to look for. When I say the distortion of the guitar sounds it makes, it is the sound that the brand of tube amps/ss amps, tubes, or guitar model you are using typically. I think what kind of sound electric guitar 1 person looks for varies from person to person. That is why I like guitars and headphones a lot. They have a lot of similarities with each other in their hobby. All of them sound good, they just have a different flavors. People will always prefer one flavor over the other. And without experience, they all sound pretty similar, but you’ll notice the differences the more you listen to different kinds of brands and tubes.
It’s an old term, obviously stands for Pace, Rhythm and Timing, it was originally used with vinyl, based systems to convey their ability to be “musical”, and not sound clinical and devoid of character. With the caveat of if you’ve heard it you know it.
Like every other audiophile term it’s misused all over the place, and now in most cases it’s probably just referring to a system or component that is musical.
Timbre is also a tricky thing, and not everyone is looking for the same things.
Fundamentally it’s about the texture of a note, but how much is enough, and how much is too much.
A lot of people don’t believe that their should be harsh sounds in music, and prefer a very polite presentation, distortion on an electric guitar, isn’t usually polite, it has bite and glare, that’s a part of their timbre, but how would you know what the original sounded like?
So a lot of it is does it meet expectations. It’s a bit easier to judge if you’ve heard a piece on a good system.
I find pianos and to a bowed string instruments are often a better place to judge timbre. You’re likely to have heard them live, so you have a data point on does the texture sound correct and not over done.
Examples ZMF Aeolus (My views elsewhere) smoothes over everything, and doesn’t present with good timbre because of it, the 1266 shoves high-frequency microdetail in your face, and so for some instruments sounds very artificial for a very different reason.
My view on why people hear things differently and prefer different presentations, is that they don’t really hear things differently, but the value they place on differing parts of the presentation is weighted differently. Timbre might be important to me, but not so much to you.
I am interested in what lead you to the impression that dynamics were pretty meh. To me the dynamics were wild swinging, at least on the macro level. I do agree the detail retrieval could have been better for the price. I also think the softer leading edge does not help it’s case here.
I found the Atrium Open to have very satisfying mids. They reminded me of the hd6## series, more so the 650, but a different take. The Senns seem to be better at the delicacies and are presented as so. The AO is more grand and powerful. I would trust the Senns with more acoustic and orchestral music. The AO, despite some fantastic room reverb that helps orchestra music, is better for any electric, rock, and overdriven guitars. The biggest AO caveat is the soft leading edge can be detrimental. I am hoping a mesh swap or removal will help that but my cans are out on loan so i cannot try right now.
There are also cans like the Radiance which are pretty well priced used and i think were amazing with acoustic guitar. You just need a source that also compliments those cans.
Yeah, 1 of the reason why the Atrium were more appealing to me vs the other ZMFs headphones is that people describe the Atrium Open to have magical liquid mids and it have its famous holographic soundstage. Then the Atrium Close got release and from people 1st impression, its still the Atrium, but it loses the famous holographic soundstage, in return gain more rumbling subbass. I was going to buy both and just sell one, but honestly don’t feel like selling stuff anymore. Feel too lazy and don’t feel like getting haggled.
I don’t know why my heart is so set on owning either the Atrium Open or Close, but I think I want to keep a discipline mind and just wait for CanJam Dallas to try them.
Speaking of guitar, I put on some Chon with the VC and I’m starting to warm up to them on the Auteur Suede Pads. It’s definitely a can that requires quite a bit of ear/brain adjustment time (sort of like AQ Nighthawks, but that’s more Dolby NR in a headphone) when coming from relatively leaner/analytical headphones. I don’t think I’d go any warmer than the VC, personally.
Also pretty special with the WA8 for most qualities but still tilted warmer than my preferences.
Ehhhh, i wouldnt say liquid either. When i think liquid i think Audeze prefazors. And tbh not much else gets that feeling. It’s more in the vein of 650s but with a high amplitude approach.
It could be that both times I had an atrium, I was comparing it directly to a Verite. It also doesn’t have great depth or layering which makes it sound flat. I sometimes found myself turning up the volume beyond what I’d consider a comfortable level to get more detail and fun out of them.
That being said, it does have better impact than the Verite or Caldera imo. Impact on the Atrium sounds more organic which is I found very satisfying with bass heavy tracks.
Btw, how can I tell the difference between BE2 pads and stock Atrium pads?
I haven’t mixed them up yet since I have them stored in different places, but I looked at them side by side and I couldn’t notice any differences, it seems like an easy thing to mix up. I want to make sure I know what the differences are before doing any pad rolling.
I wish ZMF labeled the pads. When I borrowed the Atrium, it came with Auteur and Universe pads. I was very careful about keeping them apart while I compared them, until I went on autopilot and put them next to each other, and then realized I had no idea which were which. I had to send photos to friends to get them figured out.
I’m so much a believer in that statement. IMO, there is no universal best, there is just your personal best. You might want a piano to sounds exactly like a piano, I might prefer it to sound slightly differently.
Anyway, thanks @Polygonhell and @SaberPunch for the tips on timbre. I just got back from vacation and fired up my Nautilus yesterday to try a few tracks. I started with the Verite (with BE2 pads, which IMO fix the recessed mids that used to drive me crazy, and DHC Complement C, which adds some warmth to the somewhat linear BE2s, so a bit of a coctail). I’d forgotten how much I enjoy the Verite, particularly with guitar music, and was having such a good time, I spent the rest of Sunday afternoon listening to music on my VO.
Not sure what I expected when I decided to play this song but it definitely took me by surprise lol. I enjoyed it though, foot tapping head bobbing and all!
It is really hard to tell them apart, I also don’t really trust myself to differentiate them. I put 1 of each side by side on a labeled card, and if I squint really hard I can maybe tell a difference?.. LOL
For me the moral of the story is to keep them far apart when I switch, and put the pads I’m removing away first in their clearly labeled bag
