It’s complicated and hollow bodied instruments behave differently than solid bodies instruments, and something like an Anderson Hollow which is basically a solid bodied instrument with a resonance chamber, isn’t the same as a an acoustic instrument.
For soild and mostly solid instruments it’s more about mass and dimensions than material IME.
But back to ZMF’s, while here is some difference, with the harder woods, it really is pretty subtle. And IMO your not going to decide you like one because of the wood if you disliked it in a different wood.
I always warn people off the heavier woods for ZMF’s, because the weight differences are significant, and do impact wearability.
I’m referring to actual Rosewoods that average about 2400 Janka.
Obviously there’s more to it such as design, but the wood used plays a good part of the sound. IMO Zach plays it down, but I’ve heard feedback (and have heard different zmfs) to know that the wood makes a difference.
My colleague says the same about the VO.
First the Ironwood, then the Campuhr burl and both were too hard, both sold.
And I have often heard the same from Zmf.
That’s why I don’t personally think much of hard woods or hot cups, which are visually beautiful but also too hard.
Of course, this is also a personal preference on my part.
I prefer rather soft woods.
Also because I burned easily with the Fostex mods, like with the Ebony, which was just too hard for me and more W shaped.
Regardless of that, even if Zmf says you should go by the look, that’s okay, because many people probably don’t notice that.
I am really happy with the Auteur Ambrosia Maple and was afraid that it might be too soft.
Strangely enough, it is quite rare to find sales of soft woods from Zmf headphones on the second-hand market.
Mostly it’s always the hard ones.
Seriously considering putting an order for the Atrium Closed Olive LTD.
I’ve been thinking about them since canjam and kind of regretting not getting a pair then. I don’t have a lot of use for closed backs but they sounded terrific and that wood is amazing. I just know I’ll be looking for one in the future and they will be hard to find. Olive seems to keep its value a little better than other ZMF woods.
Ugh… might need to sell something to fund this though.
I love my Atriums. I think they’re an excellent addition to a headphone collection but I definitely wouldn’t recommend them as a stand-alone headphone. The detail retrieval is bad for the price and dynamics are pretty meh, but it is tuned really well and has very satisfying bass impact. It’s one of those headphones that get better the more you listen to it, I didn’t start really liking mine until a month into listening to them.
I’d imagine the atrium closed is a bit more dynamic, I’m not exactly sure how that affects the tuning, but assuming it doesn’t, I don’t think it’s a bad choice.
I’ve seen Olive VC’s sell for very cheap recently so I wouldn’t put my money on Olive AC’s holding their value once the hype dies down.
Yeah, I’m also debating if I want the Atrium Close Olive LTD as well. I’m interested because Zach called them the “Harman Target ZMF Headphones”. My favorite headphones typically hit the Harman Target and I know it is old and outdated, but I still like it. Olive wood is typically used to make instruments and one of the instruments is a guitar. I know Zach said wood shouldn’t make a difference in his headphones, but I feel like close Wood Back, it has to make some difference. Plus ZMF headphones get like $300 off a new release, so I’m sure the Atrium Close should receive a $300 discount. If not, then that sucks.
Your review of the Atrium Close back was nice and short. What really grabbed my attention was when you said you like bass and the guitar timbre. The reason I usually like Harman Target headphones is because of the instrument timbre. I know it was a short listening session, but what was your favorite part about the Atrium Close back headphones? I’m sure the Atrium Close will also get more wild (in a good way) with the Zähl HM1 (which I think you were getting one).
Hmm… I know Zach talked about diffused field, never heard him mention Harman but maybe. They didn’t sound tuned that way but hard to say for certain.
I know he sold all the Olives he had at Canjam and is now preparing the final batch from that wood. It’s a “very large curly board” that he kept for 3 years while working on the AC. It’s Italian olive if that makes a difference for you.
I’d expect a $2600 or so launch price (before shipping and taxes in the US).
Perhaps you should read it again lol I said the Caldera had better guitar timbre. At least according to my notes. Impossible to remember now.
They sounded big and meaty. A little loose but very fun. Bass was impressive. I think it could be a good match with my LTA and HM1 since both should push it a little cleaner and accurate and balance it nicely.
I don’t think your amp selection helped the detail retrieval but yeah the open Atrium go for more fun smooth relaxed presentation. Spacious, somewhat airy and big sound. Agree on the bass, it’s quite good. They are a very fun headphones to enjoy music with, not listen critically to anything.
Price in general with ZMF is always problematic. You can get a VC for $1600 used today. Need a good reason to pay more for specific wood but I guess that’s also the charm in it if you find something you really like.
Atriums go for under $1900 now, I’m guessing we’ll see the AC get there as well withing a year. But buying this one would be because of the limited olive option that Zach doesn’t repeat a lot because (a) he doesn’t have more of the wood and (b) its not easy to work with according to him. It is by far my favorite of the ZMF woods.
Don’t know… I go back and forth on this. I want one but it also makes zero sense for me to own. If it weren’t for the specific wood I wouldn’t consider it now. In the future? Perhaps… it is a very good closed back.
My bad lol, you did say guitar timbre was better on the Caldera lol.
For Zach saying it’s a harman target headphone, that might be me reading too much into it.
Per Zach in the Atrium Close back thread on page 2, "I think most people know I am not a Harman Target follower, nor a dissenter. I am a “every driver and system has its course” er. BUT - while working on Atrium closed and knowing I wanted a headphone with more sub-bass a-la Eikon - it made a lot of my tuning choices be to get the “node” of the bass lower. You might notice that the baffle and cup of the headphone are VERY closed with little airflow, while the main airflow is through the Caldera pads. This is what helped bring the node of the bass down to about 50 Hz. So you get a fairly laid back sound with a little something up top and none of that “Harman Hash” that can come from adhering to the Harman curve in the 2-3KHZ area which I always prefer to end up in this area.
So anyways - I guess if you believe in the Harman curve, this may be the ZMF for you, or at least the closest one to it if you like how it looks on graphs and all that."
Most of my reason for wanting the Atrium Headphone was to just get another harman target headphone to play with and compare with my collections. But if it sounds different, not really too interesting for me. Obviously, the best way to get an impression on headphone is to listen to it, but wish the Olive Wood wasn’t such a limiting thing for April. Wish it was November (trying to go to CanJam Dallas this year) instead lol. If you do get the Atrium Close headphone, looking forward with your impressions with the HM1!
I thought the Verite had the best guitar string timbre, almost as good as the utopia’s. Caldera was ok in that respect, better than average but not stand-out. Maybe I just like beryllium drivers lol
Yeah, when I had the Caldera I wasn’t too impressed with the guitar timbre on it. Hearing the Atrium Close isn’t better than the Caldera for guitar timbre is kinda gotten me less interested in Atrium Close Back. I’m trying to convince myself on owning the Atrium Close, that’s why I probably misread it. It just so hard to convince myself when I already own 5 closed-back headphones with a variety of flavors already. Not really interested in the Verite honestly, but will probably try them if I get the opportunity.
Almost all the headphones I owned are geared towards the electric guitar (the Onyko A800 is the only one that sounds amazing with the electric guitar and the best for acoustic guitars) like the AKG K240 Sextett EP, Audio Technica AD2000, Audio Technica L3000, and Onkyo A800.
In that case, you should consider getting a utopia (if you don’t already have one). The Verite Open and Closed are also really good with guitar if you want a ZMF headphone.
As @orrman said, pairing could play a role. I’ve recently tried the Verite on a 13r, OOR, Erco, gsx mini, and CMA fifteen so my experience is limited to solid state amps.
Thanks for the Utopia recommendation. Maybe the new Utopia might be interesting since I heard it’s warmer compared to the OG, but honestly, I’m just looking for 1 more headphone as more of a trophy then I will stop buying headphones for a long while. I already reach my “endgame” headphone setup. My current plan for this year is to buy 1 almost 20-year-old DAC/Amp especially made for 1 of my old headphones (hope the guy doesn’t change his mind), maybe 1 more tube amp for the Sennheiser HD580 Jubilee, and I got my eyes on 1 speaker DAC/Amp setup in the used market. After that, focus more on my speaker setups and upgrade on RPi4 to a better server.
