Oh shit forgot about hawks, I think the only thing I didn’t like was the suspension strap since I don’t like those auto adjusting ones personally, but yeah that was super comfy
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I seriously considered the Utopia before I decided on the Elite. I was a bit turned off by the descriptions of it as overly bright with a small soundstage. I know a synergistic chain could have made both of these non-issues. I decided to try a high-end planar instead since all my experience has been with ZMF dynamics.
I’ve never heard the Empyrean, but most Elite owners that have say it’s a noticeable step up in technicalities while maintaining the excellent comfort and build quality. As far as value, I am probably never going to be in the market for a $4000 headphone. I don’t know if these warrant that kind of cash since I haven’t heard any of their competitors in the price range. I managed to acquire the Elite in a trade and got a really good deal, so for me they seem like an exceptional value considering the amount of money I have tied up in them. I admit it’s very unlikely anyone will be able to snag an Elite in the same way I did, so my value assessment won’t be very relatable.
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I would agree that the overly bright and small stage descriptions only show themselves on a poor chain
Good to know
That’s good
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@Mon your argumentation sounds coherent.
We can only hope that we will see more of this from Zmf in the near future, even if there are only possible driver updates, as we are seeing at the moment with the Auteur.
It would probably also be desirable for the other models.
There is certainly still room for improvement and the aesthetics are secondary.
I think it’s good that he’s been paying more attention to quality in recent years, as well as to pads.
Especially with pads you have to be careful because there are quite a lot of them and you slowly lose the overview.
It would certainly be a good time to develop the drivers further by next year at the latest.
I haven’t seen it from that point of view yet.It‘s a good point from you.
@ckhirnigs
I can also understand your arguments very well, as well as your concerns.
Just as a tip, since you will be getting the Atrium soon, wait with the update of the Auteur.
If you like it, it will bite you in the ass to have spent 600$ for it.
A fellow forum member who had my Auteur recently and I had his Aeolus got his Atrium 2 weeks later.
It wasn’t completely burnt in, but he said that the Atrium was the better Auteur, roughly speaking.
Brighter than the Vc and VO, a bit darker than the Auteur what the Auteur lacks is clearly more present in the Atrium.
In the end, it might even be worthwhile for you to wait with the Auteur update so that you can save the $600 or perhaps invest in the Atrium.
Just to help you think about it.
In general, the whole thing with the Auteur seems good on paper.
I also think that Zach has listened to the community a bit with the update as far as their wishes are concerned.
A little more bass, a little less FR but still the same etc…
I would put the guarantee thing much more on the bonus side.
It’s a nice to have, no question.
You also have to say that the overall improvements are minimal and it remains an auteur according to Zach’s statements, which he also explicitly emphasises.
Use the time you have to audition and listen to the Atrium and wait until there are first reports about the update.
I think that would help you more and make it easier to make a good decision later.
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@Deleeh I am leaning towards this plan of attack you summed up very nicely. I think it definitely makes sense to listen to the Atrium before I spend the $600 on the Auteur upgrade. If I like them as much as I expect to, I will probably wait until the promised Atrium Closed comes out to make another ZMF purchase. In the mean time, I’ll have my OG Auteur here to serve up a different flavor when I get the urge to take a break from the Elite.
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Some thoughts from me since I do share a lot of the thoughts everyone has.
Also do note I have only owned and listened to 1 ZMF, and that is my LTD Bubinga Atrium.
@Robson 's points: Yes woodworking, Good woodworking is more involving and talent that meets the eye. 100% agree some real interesting cuts are from those edges where burls burl, heart and sapwood meet, and things arent always suitable. Almost all figuring is from non normal growth or tree ailments. I know the whole resin fills have become popular, and I am split on that. The way ZMF has done it with wild colors and i am mehhh on and i wonder if these cuts could have a better use. Maybe wood grills or headband pieces? More on this in my own points later below.
@M0N 's points: While your thoughts may be “unpopular”, they are for sure more rooted, realistic, and sensible. I dont know if it is an effect of a loaner, or having Zach as a forum member but it seems other spots like to gush about the ZMFs. It’s like in their reviews they arent always exaggerating the good parts but they just snip any downsides out. I hope in my not-a-review article, even though my unit has changed some more, i put things into their appropriate place and highlighted some things that are not so great as well. I also have and expect to continue to update my thoughts here in the thread. More thoughts on this, wood dicking, and progress in my own points later below.
@ckhirnigs points: I still think my senn hd6xx is the most comfy can i have. It’s light it fits my head, amd i can forget its on at times. The hd800s is similar but its stiffer so it makes itself known. The ZMF is more of a weighted blanket approach. More overbuilt and comfy cozy. I also had not 100% tightened screws so it is still very human variable.
@ckhirnigs and @Deleeh in my personal experience i think it would be a good idea to off especially as you like what you have. Let the initial hype wave settle then see what’s up or see if you can demo. Nothing is more disappointing than thinking you are upgrading something you love and it comes out not being what you imagined. Now you also cant revert back and are stuck. Also wtf on the $200 upcharge. Any good explaination there?
Nothing against Zach, Bevin, or anyone else. I do believe they are very nice people and they have a specific niche they fill well and they seem very sweet and relatable. They also may be tuning to their ear or a small groups preferences and that is fine as well, it just may not fit everyone. Imagine if Z tuned headphones, they may be perfect for him but those ears are creating something borked.
More thoughts on post II…
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Hello,
For me it is certain that I will not do the update.
The Auteur is too new for me to invest another 400$, I might as well have waited for it and hoped for the Revulet that now has an owner, lool.
It was also really lucky that the dealer had another Og Auteur in the order before the update was announced.
And now that it’s properly installed, there’s nothing I’d want to change about these headphones.
Everything I criticised in the pre-post was due to pure burn-in.
I didn’t think it would be so serious.
It plays so effortlessly and I can sit back and relax before I am almost prompted.
And I have found 2-4 pairs of tubes that harmonise together that were already in the drawer.
So in summary, I’d rather look for a used one if it’s worth it or the Classic if I’m so itchy.
Maybe one day I will go to Heidelberg in Germany to the Zmf dealer and listen to the Classic as well as the Atrium and the Vc.
I think I’m as happy with the Auteur as @ckhirnigs is with his Ash Auteur at the moment.
Also glad I listened to @Mon when the trial was going on where Zmf became an issue for me…
For my part, I think I should focus more on the Dac, where I think there’s still a bit to be got out of it that harmonises well with the Euforia.
That would still be my wish this year if it fits financially again.
The Atrium or Vc can also be moved to next year.
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Well I decided to cancel my order for the Auteur upgrade tonight. I’ll be demoing the Atrium soon and a Head-Fi buddy has graciously offered to loan me his Auteur Classic after he’s spent some time with it. I’ll now get the chance to do a side-by-side comparison of my OG Auteur and the new Classic. I can always do the upgrade later on, so it seems silly to rush into it now.
On a side note, my Meze Elite is sounding pretty incredible with the Quicksilver, so my ZMFs (present and future) had better watch out!
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Hello,
That sounds good for you.
I’m happy for you that you have such a great opportunity.
It’s certainly the best solution for you and if you were to share your impressions, it would help other people.
I hope you have a lot of fun with it .
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I agree with a lot of what Mon said. I’ll also add that I am choosing not to upgrade my Auteur. I got mine used and if you add $600 to the used price that I paid, it wouldn’t be worth it. Adding $600 to any ZMF model for an “upgrade” isn’t worth it actually, IMO. Although I was initially interested, that $600 would be better served in saving up for my next purchase.
I like Zach and he makes nice stuff. But there definitely is a limit to the performance capabilities of his headphones, and there are other competitive headphones in similar price points that just perform and sound better, and are more comfortable.
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Well, I guess it wasn’t that unpopular of an opinion after all lol. I do look forward for new zmf models and what they offer, as long as it’s not only a wood change. I think recently the choice to partner with decware to make a higher tier otl sounds awesome and I can’t wait to see what they come out with, I’d like to see a similar focus on better sound applied to their headphones next
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Will be very curious on your thoughts on that, should be fun
Yooooo
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Interesting thought experiment here given the scenario that a new upgraded driver is released for the VC. Would I do it? I wouldn’t. To get a VC to a more technically capable point it would have to be at a level that is significantly better. The most important is point I enjoy my ZMF for what it is at the price I paid for it, but I would never have considered it as a new purchase given the selection of used and the fact that the premium burl woods sell for a much higher new price.
Given the capabilities of other cans out there, the prospect of selling a $5k ZMF can becomes quite a challenge and an R&D cost factor for ZMF. I will also say that this may be a calculated self imposed pigeon hole as @M0N suggests. It makes total business sense. I completely understand the argument that you need a horse in the elite realm field to create that image.
Some companies like Abyss just shoot for the top and IMO that’s a much harder market to compete in. Whereas companies like HiFiMan make the high end cans but I’d bet that 3/4 of their revenue comes from the lower tier can sales.
More expensive better technical cans would not necessarily sell more. Let’s be honest, how many product do we as a community buy new? I’d say the overwhelming lot of us buy our gear through the used market.
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Part II: More of my thoughts, experiences and criticisms…
Off the bat some subjective thoughts and annoyances. Calling all those flamed and burled maples “stabilized” no matter if it does or does not have a heavy dose of resin. And on top of that i think a solid 80% of them are blehhh. There are colors that just dont fit or compliment the wood selection, and others that down right make me nauseous. There are also a few that I love namely the purple, green, and blue ones with dots of orange that along with the burl figuring remind me of nebulas. But those few aside, there is not much that compliments the wood. Ambers, oranges, reds. Maybe try a burst or fade, maybe just a slight tint. If your going to go that crazy and against the wood’s look then why use wood at all. Which brings me to my next thought…
The viability of resin cups and bettering production.
So i do not know 100% their process, and I have seen some 3d printing. But, especially since Zach keeps saying the wood shouldnt make that big of a different, (but then also lists why the wood does) why not do resin cups? You can get as crazy or as mild your colors i would also think even if its not molds, CNCing them from a block would be cheaper and possibly lighter than the wood. Use this to bring down the introductory price of each can, then have a standard wood for a small upcharge. CNC may also be useful to cut down processing times on the wood as well if he isnt already using this. Want to keep it “handmade” fine, cnc can still get it very close them the final shaping can be done by hand. But wait, everyone likes their LTDs. I like them, you like them, he, she, they like em. Well instead of these runs of varying numbers when ZMF decides a blank is ready to be used, why not be like a very high end boutique type thing? Have pictures of blanks, list what headphones it can be used to make and people can order something from those listed blanks. The guitar world has done this for a long time as people pick their specific flame tops. It also eliminates things where the product page has a specific grain, or color, or heart and sap wood combo that you love so you order, but in the end you get a totally different cut. It also limits people (less) to hoping for specific woods for their favorite headphone. I know Zach has some burl redwood and i want that bad, but I am afraid he will use it on some BS. At this point you can upcharge accordingly. And really it makes it much more clear where the sound stops and aesthetic costs start.
Keeping up and fielding a price/performance competitive product
So I will touch more on the Atrium stuff a little later. But in general I do see how things can be getting stale. The Atrium was a co-TOTL but it was made very clear by ZMF themselves that it isnt 100% up to the technical spec of the Verite, so there hasnt been a step forward in true technical performance in a little bit. Making closed versions of things also seems like a sidestep. For the most part it seems like the same formula: a driver tweak, and some differently vented cups. But it all seems to be variations of the same cut. I would love to see some different shapes or break out of the usual parameters. Like why not a more oval and very open shape like a senn hd6xx series. It seems they are stuck on the same mostly closed formfactor.
Cost
Not going to beat the dead horse, but prices dont match the sonic performance as much as they should. Something something time and skill to hand do things. There has been talks of a lower cost ZMF offering for a long time, but i think something to bring down the cost of current models may help just as much, ie resin cups. $400 for the upgrade but an extra $200 if youre not the original owner? Why? Stabilized pieces pushing $3k? Oof. I think something like the boutique more custom shop thing would be better if you want to charge that much as you pick what youre getting and not picking from a bunch or preset art experiments. The good and bad is they do seem to keep their value.
I have more to say but i think ill cut it here and do a part III. I’ll use that to cover some Atrium specific thoughts as well as some longer thoughts ive been meaning to get down in text.
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:Stands up and stretches the legs before diving back in:
Ok Part the 3rd. A bit more about my ZMF experience and summing up my Atrium journey so far.
Right now I am pretty warm on my Atrium, not lukewarm, not hot. It is a frequently used headphone but one I am am not afraid to sideline for a week to listen to other cans. After ~200 hours it really feels like it keeps settling in, becoming smoother and less bombastic, ultimately a bit flatter in all aspects. Some of the dullness in the high end was remedied with amp, cable, and tube changes.
The Dampening System
This is the driver baffle, the side that faces your ear:
Notice something, besides only the outside of the cup being finished? Despite being a bubinga set, that baffle and I assume the whole dampening system structure, is NOT bubinga. SHOCK!. Instead, it looks like a mahogany but most likely sapele. NOT REALLY SHOCKED! This explains a lot, like almost all of it. This is where the sound comes from, the driver and the baffle it is attached to, and the headphones sound screams the characteristics of this wood. The smoother softer less immediate sonics replicate that of the “Velvet Hammer” Les Pauls made of the same wood. I think the cups play less of a role in the Atrium that in any other ZMF as that inside structure is built very much like a ported cab. It has the dampening foam that seems very much like treatment to have the driver “see” a bigger space behind it. The assembly really feels like it is whats shaping the sound and enhancing that extra “room reverb”. I think the cups are just there to lend their shape and provide a housing for it all. The holes and ports seem more of a way to make sure the housing cup doesnt interfere or create negative waves or vibrations. Some of them are behind the gimbal and so wouldnt they be affected by different head fits? Once again looking at how the system fits into everything, the space between the cup inside and the dampening column looks like it is separated enough from the ear side of the baffle that sound wise it may not be doing much but its main task may be to maintain a good pressure balance and just diffuse a bit.
Drivers
Tbh outside of a newer bigger magnet i dont know how much the driver differentiates from it’s predecessor. That magnet should provide more control if it is powered right. This is the first biocellulose driver i have heard and it lives up to the natural, organic billing. Most aspects seem to be middle ground or better, ie speed. I wonder if a bigger overall driver would do anything or be feasible.
Build
The overall construction is very overbuilt but handmade and more basic. There is considerable heft and that is what keeps things in place. I do get annoyed when the cup’s ports arent finished and you can see the drips going in there, or the baffle wood is rough enough it is catching the pads, or the way you adjust the headband is bending the metal. I am so glad my head fits well enough that i dont need to constantly ocd bend the metal. And like, there is NOTHING they could have figured out to differentiate ear pads?! Cmon, like even silver marker on the inside lip? The solution is to eventually sell plastic storage bags to write on? Some of this homey feel isnt the most welcome on the headphone itself, but i actually LOVE it in the “case candy” goodies. The handwritten cards, the wooden id and serial cards, etc etc. It all feels like these were made in a woodshop next to a lake in the Maine wilderness. I would love to still have the wooden cases but I love this all the same.
Well, I didnt think I had this much to say but here it is and hopefully I broke things down enough to be easy to digest, and get my points across. I really do like ZMF but I do not have brand loyalty and I try not to let appeal persuade me away from criticizing due faults. Anyone’s points or counter points are welcome.
With this all said i still think my Atrium is a keeper, but maybe not the permanent collection installation it once was. I still need to roll the pads, and mesh, and maybe an amp but at my level i dont want to buy dedicated source gear just for one headphone. If i had a Susvara or Utopia then ok but here I am not sure it is worth the dedication. I do want to give my best shot in recapturing that early break in as that was the absolute best i have heard anything sound. Maybe it was my ears, the day, the season, the humidity seeming into the unfinished open pore wood, allergies, psychoacoustics, brain burn in, the angle of the headphone dangle, or a butterfly flapped its wings at just the right time outside. It was dynamic, lively, textured, visceral, tight, and the imaging and placement was all laser precise. Whatever it was I wish i kept listening at the point and didnt put it back on to idle break in and overly smooth out.
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Hello,
I also have the Sapele cover on my Auteur, so this is probably nothing new.
It’s probably already standard in that respect.
Your theory is interesting but I don’t think it matters.
Especially with the Atrium, the system is designed to prevent the sound from randomly escaping.
And is emitted evenly.
This will not be the case with the other Zmf, but it will have been solved differently by directing the sound in a more targeted way.
The hardness of the wood, as I understood Zmf, is supposed to reduce the wood note.
I think there are now certain hurdles to getting at something like that, especially the wood.
But it will still be present when it is built.
A lot of people didn’t like the reverb and decay.
Especially with the Atrium, the wood is just an optic thanks to the damping system.
That will always be more important in the other headphones.
A colleague said that the Verite would be perfect for him if the wood was softer.
I hardly notice any decay and reverb in my Auteur Ambrosia maple.
I noticed this more clearly with his Aeolus.
Wood will still sound better with whatever speaker than with plastic or anything else like that.
Just because of the frequency and wood can just vibrate,is a fact.
If you’ve ever had Fostex headphones and modded them, you’ll notice things like that very quickly.
Apart from that, the comfort is also far from what Zmf offers (like having a raw one on your head 
).
And the sound insulation is not the best either.
If you have ever heard and felt something like that, Zmf is the better Fostex, roughly speaking.
Because of their atrium the biocellulose driver needs a lot of break in time.
My Auteur also took a long time.
Minimum 200h better 300h.It was better after this Time the like new.
With the Atrium maybe a bit more due to the damping I would say that these also need a bit more time from the fibres and density until they have their shape.
Really stress the headphones for 24 hours at a stretch with soft music on the SS amplifier or CD player with repeat mode or on the telephone, whatever else you have at home.
Let the fibres stretch properly and then let them rest for 12 hours and stress them again.
Have you ever changed the pads?
A colleague told me that the pads on the Verite and Atrium are calibrated before they leave the quarters.
Have you checked to see if the pads have twisted?
It should look like the picture.
The notch from the Pad must be parallel to the screw.
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That is a really nice looking set you have. 
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Seriously, I think his zmf and the one @ericg has are the prettiest I’ve seen!
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@ericg post pics and we will have to vote to see who has the prettiest zmf.
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So forgive me if I am misunderstanding, and feel free to clarify anywhere if i am…
Well I think the bezel and dampening system (it is all the same main piece) is the main sound sculpting piece, at least for the Atrium. It’s like the ported front baffle of a speaker casing. I think for other headphones it may take a little more of the cups flavor but i think they all get a zmf sound from the baffle assembly. It would be interesting to hear the same headphone and drivers on say maple baffles.
I am interested in if he has an open or closed Verite. What wood he has now. And what aspects he would want to improve or wants the wood to improve.
Depends on the objective. A resin or carbon fiber would give a sound that is more true to the driver’s output, especially if the baffle is also changed. Most likely faster, cleaner, think of a soloist in the spotlight vs blending in and complimenting the ensemble.
I have not, but yes, i think you even told me about the bass on an ebony pair. And gosh i wish i had a pair as an excuse to lawton mod because he has so many gorgeous cups right now. But it also gets doubled down since those are closed.
So this reminds me of a point i was going to bring up. Zach basically takes up the neutral stance of “burn in matters if you believe in it and doesnt if you dont”. He should stop riding the fence and just take one side, preferably that burn in does affect his headphones. Then he can support that and give info such as what to expect and a general timeframe of how long it takes to get to a more final sound.
As for break in, i tried many things over the years such as sweeps, above average volume music playing, long sessions, short rests etc. Tbh i dont judge anyone’s method and i dont claim to be any be all end all on it either. For me i play it like i normally would if i were actively listening but just keep it on my desk while working. I pick it up when a good song pops on or just here and there. I play all my music on random.
Yes sir, i checked before i put it on each time. The pads thankfully dont turn much but they do get close to slipping off.
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