Pretty much lol. I do feel the wa22 is warmer and a bit sweeter as well, but the wa33 is just ahead in multiple different leagues, not much of a fair comparison. With a susvara, the wa33 is absolutely worth it over the wa22.
I don’t have too much experience with the mogwai, but I do think it’s a more technically capable amp than the wa22 from when I’ve demoed it, but different overall sound. I do know there’s some that like that pairup with the susvara, although my experience with a&s amps and the susvara hasn’t been so positive personally lol. Would be an @Draaly question since he’s got more experience with the mogwai and susvara combo
Mogwai se is a significant step above wa22 (especialy so for sus). Its a very different sound though with a focus on exageration and dynamacism. Its my personal pick for sus at that price range.
Wa33 is a truly different league from the wa22 and mogwai se, but i would peraonaly take mogwai over it somply because i find the combo with sus fairly boring (personal prefrence on that one, i totaly underatand the love and its veey justified).
Another option it ylu dont listen super loud or have a dac with a real hot output is wa23. Close to wa33 in technicalities but more of a wa22 signature with a bit of warmth and texture without being gooey. Only problem is th3 gain on it is a little low so if you use a 2V rca (or 4V xlr) input lots of people may just not have enough gain on the volume knob on it. That said, if maxed is loud enough for you, i dont find you loose any performace with the pot maxed so i say go for it.
Thanks guys, I usually do this sort of research myself but work has been hell lately and I saw a damn nice deal on a WA22 ($1200) that made me consider cheaping out instead of saving up for the WA33.
Okay, that’s good to know. So even though the WA33 is definitely better, the Mogwai SE is no slouch and could be a viable purchase if a good deal shows up.
If I don’t end up going the route of the Mogwai SE, then the WA23 and WA33 will be the route I take depending on which has a better deal when I try to buy one (I only listen at high volumes when doing critical listening). Thanks again for the information guys, hopefully I’ll be able to actually find these answers myself next time instead of bothering you guys.
I received the WA23 today and spent a good few hours today cleaning, dusting, reorganizing, and packing things away.
A few first impressions but non of them audio related. Unfortunately there is a loud buzz that comes through at all times. It seems either a tube issue or something with power. Disappointing, but it is being looked into.
Fit, finish, aesthetics though… These point received a lot of attention. The actual amp shape to me is fine and i think it is a pretty sweet low profile look. It is very heft at about the same as the EC at 30lbs total. I am guessing whatever transformers are just built flat and inside the chassis.
But after that it drops off. The big alps pot is bragged about its feel. It is identical feeling to the alps blue velvet in the EC, it just feels like a properly tightened pot. Smooth, decent resistance, hut not though to turn. I know it probably boasts other things like channel balance but the money could of been better elsewhere. I nice stepped unit would be preferable. All other knobs have a satisfying click, but thats all.
There was attention put into the build quality as it does feel extremely solid, but the details are just odd. Where the EC had finishing flaws and ripples here and there. The WA23 feels like it is not coherent to itself. The bottom be el on the amp and power supply ate different, one overbites and the other underbites The whole body has a stipple texture that looks more plastic and i think they should have picked something better, even a brushed look would have been better. The gold parts are a slightly rose gold color, but all screws and jacks are regular yellow gold and are glossy. And theyre on top of each other and dont match at all, not even close! Even the badge on the psu is a different gold color/texture. To make it worse they put cut out rings around the pot and you see it’s brass body under the different gold outer. Then the amp’s power light is a weird orange red around the knob and it matches nothing. Just make it white.
The amp warms up very quick and the tubes give off a hot zone. I do not see any vents on the amp, and i am not sure if the amp body warms up. The EC stayed cool and never had the heat bubble. All the tubes are close so i can see why this happens, but it makes me wonder what is the design decision to put the rectifier tube on the main body and not on the power supply. The power supple is pretty small tbh, much more so than the EC’s. It is kind of awkward as its not big enough for its own space but not small enough to hide. I guess maybe if you can hide it in a drawer or something and run the also not matching light grey umbilical it can look ok.
At this point i just hope the sound lives up to it or its an easy swap back to the EC.
Unfortunately I am going to see if this one can go back. Replacement tubes came in and they are quieter, but there us still a very audible buzz when the knob is up past 12 o’clock, and this is where i questioned if other amps were turned off from being so quiet.
Its a little odd as there is a lot of buzz on switch flip, and it buzzes loud for a moment and fades a little during the 20 second warmup period. Then there is an audible click and it mostly goes away until you turn up the volume. At least that is better than before where it buzzed loud even when at 0.
Nothing will move until monday so maybe ill try to give it a listen while it is here. It is a shame as at least 2 trusted members here boasted about this one.
You’re sending it back to the seller you bought it from? Glad he’s taking it back if that’s the case. did he acknowledge the issue or he’s completely surprised by it?
Matt – not sure if this is an item that you like enough to want to go this far, but would it help to bring it over to another audiophile’s system and try it there? I’m wondering if the buzz is either environmental or an interaction w/ something in your system. If it’s quiet in another system, then perhaps it opens the opportunity to try and solve this and keep it?
Well i emailed him tonight. We will see what he says but he did seem surprised and said he had no issue with it. Maybe he never heard it or used that much of the knob, who knows. The amp also has an hum to it outside of the headphones.
Yeah i could, but i do not have anyone that close. It also is a bit of a moot point because ot has to work on my system in my environment.
This is also complicated. I proposed I will send to Woo to check but have him send it back to the seller. It is under warranty with the seller still. Woo transfers warranty but only to the second owner, which by the wording in the ad it seemed like he was the first making me the second. This ended up not being true. I dont think there was malice here but it rubs me wrong and not having a warranty is a big difference.
Good luck either way, this is one of those situations where you might have good fortune if Woo is willing to repair / look over the amplifier, give it a good bill of health and do it under warranty for the seller and he takes it back.
This way neither party will take too much loss and the next buyer is really on their own BUT at least has an honest transaction w/ a freshly verified working amp.
Happy Easter, it could have been worse.
As one of the WA23 biggest proponents, I feel bad and a little guilty you have to go through all of this. I still stand behind my opinion that it’s a terrific amp, clearly something went south with this one and the whole deal.
I hope you get to an agreement with the seller that at least partially makes up for the sour experience. Seller should own the fact he can’t transfer the warranty you and that wasn’t clearly explained in the ad.
Have you tried just turning it on without any interconnects attached? See if there’s still a buzz?
I’m just trying to minimize the chance that Woo repair will say they don’t hear anything abnormal.
I told him i would like to send it to Woo and have it checked then just sent back to him and then have my money refunded. He kind of ignored this and said just send it to Woo, i am sure you will love it after, it was perfect when i sent ot and there was no visible UPS damage…"
Aggravating. But I think with the one tube not working correctly that should be enough of a case to send ot back, he can put in a claim. These are not inexpensive tubes.
This is what i am trying to get through to him. I will put out the money, shipping and good faith to send it to woo for him when i cam really just say something is wrong, void the sale, you deal with it.
Dont. You did nothing wrong besides helping a friend.
I gave it set up now, noise and all, so hopefully i can attest to it’s sound soon
I tried it all, even ground lift plugs. There is always some noise. Even with everything on low it sounded like a faint rain outside. My fear is i send it to woo and they may say everything is normal and “thats just how tubes are”. I am sorry but at this level you can do much better as amps a fraction of this price dont have this noise.
If you remember I had a buzzing problem with the first WA33 I bought from Upscale Audio. Ended up sending it back to them (they were not happy with that at all) but my second time buying one it was much quieter. My WA23 was very quiet too. A little transformer him I can get behind, but the threshold is low for what I’d consider too much.
What headphones, that could well be within “normal” for very sensitive headphones (Utopia).
But it could also be any passive component in the circuit, power generally hums, passive components hiss or crackle.
The problem with quiet noises, is there is a very good chance the manufacturer will just claim it’s normal.
My WA33, has some (albeit small) transformer hum (not through the headphones) while warming up, varies a bit by time of day which implies input power related. Outside of that it was very quiet.
Were there other changes between the first and second wa33? Ive also heard others say they had minimal hum on the WA33. I think if it was not through the headphones then fine, but it is and it kills any possibility of using the Lampis gretty darn good volume control and remote.
So far i have only tried the Utopia. I can try the hd600 next.
This is constant, for both the hum and the low level buzz through the headphones.
Yes, this. With the radu amp and the eddie i do not remember any noise, just some very low level sporadic clicks when i added the lampi. In between it was darn silent. The eddie i had at max volume, the radu i can claim its been a while but i barely used volume on that monster amp, but i believe by his page he went pretty nuts on trying to eliminate noise.
I just cant see an amp of this caliber having this much so low down and i am at the point where i dont want to spend a ton to maybe fix it where going back to what i had does not have this issue.
I have also been talking to @keithc on the sude about power this amd power that. It is not lost on me things outside the amp can be improved but, it is also not lost on me my current spot isnt the place to go crazy on this stuff either.
So i found a configuration where noise is minimum. The amp needs a solid 45-60m warmup to start sounding it’s best. I 100% hear the appeal in the amp. It reminds me of the EC but it is tighter and more “glass solid” (not glassy sounding), maybe a dab more sub-bass, separation, and perhaps quicker. I wouldnt say it is tubey sounding but i can see how people say that compared to other gear. It is not decware, or BHC more decay and ambiance focused. But i do miss the treble of the Studio B. I think @Polygonhell hit it when he described the Riviera vs some other amps. Its not an energy or presence thing but it lacks something on the treble that makes it feel smoother.
This darker, richer, but smoother tonality makes songs like this very enjoyable to listen to as the bass guitar just bounces along
Had this a week. Not properly sat and listened yet; just had it on while I work …but dang, this is absolutely astonishing. I must caveat my comments by saying that I have never heard an amp of this tier before. But the holographic nature of each image is incredibly satisfying. This pairs really well with my HEkse, too. There’s real heft to kick drums, etc., that really adds to the enjoyment. Will post more coherent impressions, but this amp has won me over easier than any other piece of gear has.
From the warranty inspection, and something i feared would be the outcome. I think this will be a battle with the seller now as it is not fit for use.
I 100% disagree with Woo’s sennheiser findings as it is audible much lower. And there was hum from the unit outside of headphones themselves.
Summary
Hi Matt,
We inspected your WA23 and the supplied tubes. Here are our findings.
One of your EH 2A3 tubes is noisy and weak. Recommend to replace both EH 2A3 in a matched pair.
For further testing, we used a new pair of EH 2A3 tubes. Pictures attached, high resolution pictures available.
Using the Composer headphones by Austrian Audio (rated at 112 dB sensitivity), tiny noise audible after 2 o’clock position on the volume knob.
Using the Sennheiser HD650 (rated at 103 dB sensitivity), WA23 set to LO LEVEL and LO IMPEDANCE, inaudible noise at max volume. A tiny noise only audible above 3 o’clock volume with settings at HI Level and LO Impedance. Expected with HI level setting.
using a Westone IEM rated at above 120dB, audible noise. Expected, IEMs are not recommended for this amplifier.
The amplifier bench tested within the designed specs. No repair is needed.
It is important the amplifier is returned with a known (tested) set of tubes we used. This way there is a reference point when you receive it.
$280 for new (tested) EH 2A3 gold-pin tubes in matched pair
$120 inspection (no problem found so warranty does not apply)
