Just a thought
There are some headphones and audio products in general that we would love the companies to still make
For example rn I can think of some headphones
LCD 2.1 and 2.2
Hifiman HE5, HE6 original versions (4 and 6 screw)
OG HD580
A ton of older grados
But these companies are still up and running just fine
What are some good reasons these products dont come back, or they do but the reissues sound completely different and not as good
I know in some cases they physically can’t, perhaps they don’t have the original parts and tooling needed, perhaps it’s no longer feasible to replicate the original design. I know hifiman basically said they can’t make the original he6 driver anymore when questioned about the he6se (iirc). Components can be a big problem for electronics manufacturers, not being able to get the right caps, resistors, transformers, etc to properly replicate the design even if they wanted to reissue
Also some companies just don’t find it worthwhile, perhaps it’s a smaller group of people who want an old design back and there’s simply not enough demand to justify still producing the older model
People in R&D, Marketing, … have a job to do, they want to work on new stuff and they’re not getting fat bonusses for same old same old. So they launch new and improved things to achieve again new successes and the related incentives.
Companies and the people who work there have a different view on products then the customers, they don’t see something as the best, they always believe in whatever their working on to be the best. Sales and revenue are their primary indicators/drivers, not sound quality or emotional engagement or what the audio community thinks.
Keeping products in the product line costs money; they require support, testing, teams, promotion, storage and a bunch of other resources.
Audiophiles have a very small market share I’m afraid, we have little impact on the bottom line.
Also read from an audeze rep that making the wood for the LCD was and still is a pain in the ass, but I dont know how important is that wood compared to the driver, as you say probably not feasable anymore
So its mainly because of industrialization?
Id love to see more people in this hobby, they are getting bose like cray
A few things.
Mats, production, resources may not be there anymore or just not available. Some industries deal with regulation. IE: fragrances no longer can have real sandalwood, musk or ambergris, causing reformulations and changes to the end product.
Company direction. Tying in a bit with the marketing point. New products are new press releases with more attention. Maybe a company sees a change in the market and is reacting, or trying to make that market change themselves.
Improved product. Either improved from their standpoint, the customers standpoint, or both. Or they have a very comparable product that costs them less.
In case of electronics, it can happen that the ICs and other semi-conductors used in the design are so far into EOL, that there is not even a factory able to start making them again. This happened a lot to Analog ICs that are now just spec sheets and overpriced Ebay listings.
You see that sometimes with CPUs or graphics cards where the SKUs have some letter or “-2” appended to them because they are “remastering” some product from parts that would normally go into current-generation products.
Speaking of reissues, im heavily led to believe that hifiman is making very good profit from even the silent revisions, I know a bunch of audiophile that had the sundaras, anandas and arya, and 2020 and 2021 there were some revs for those. Also for the LCD X october 2021 revision.
These guys were buying the revisions like pancakes, it happens a lot in latin american audiophile community. As if the new revs are going to improve the sound or whatever a ton, they dont even consider they might like them less than what they already have, they just buy it thinking its a worthy upgrade.
or a local friend that had the sr325e, as soon as the x came out he replaced his older one because there were rave reviews. I had the sr325is (alessandro ver) and I thought it sounded better than both.
Z and other hype the revisions a lot too, without making proper comparisons “they just sound better”
This is a good discussion topic. I know that R&D and financial bottom line has a lot to do with it.
I still don’t know why Hifiman hasn’t brought back the popular older models like the HE6, HE500, HE5, etc. Sure, they have sort of kind of done that with the 5xx, he6se, etc…but those re-released models don’t sound much like their older counterparts at all.
I also think there are times where the pursuit of “better” materials has actually compromised sound quality. The last few years a lot of companies that make planars have been trying to come up with the thinnest diaphragms and lightest magnet structures for their designs. But some of the best sounding planars I’ve heard are the opposite of that as they have denser and heavier materials.
Same pricipal of why some vintage gear is basically improssible to repair or get to how it used to be as some components literally just dont exist any more, which means u cant get the exact specs that they were. Thinking its gonna be an issue if I ever have to re cap my AVR as totally unsure if they even make them anymore. Best bet is getting something similar but it most likely will never be the same.
Yeah, they would have to say that, I cant be certain about the electronics of the og he6, but sounds a lil sus they can’t bring its sound back, they were a much much smaller company back then… like hazi and others say I believe its the way the industry looks for profit and these older designs wouldn’t be as marketable. weight definitely a factor.
@Polygonhell thanks for the edit, that question was redacted horribly, I want to improve my english
If companies saw a market for reissues of old gear, they’d do it.
There is an implicit assumption that companies improve on older designs when they release newer ones.
I can see a few older designs having some uptake, but I suspect a lot of forum talk by a few dedicated fans doesn’t really equate to a lot of sales.
My 2Ch speakers are no longer available, the designer died and the company went out of business, but they are also impossible to get parts for now, there are just no manufacturers making even similar drivers.
On things like the HE-6 driver, it could be they can no longer source the same magnets, or the film used is no longer available, tolling has been destroyed etc. At some point it just becomes too expensive to go back.
okay thats a good flip side to my conspiracy theory
RIP on the speakers, sounds like you liked em a lot
They still work fine, but if a driver ever did fail, that would be it.
I’d probably go a different way if I were getting back into 2Ch anyway.
Then you have a very nice vintage, I hope they never die on you.
Older people here in mexico always say electronics previous to the 2000’s and 90’s never fail or are easily serviceable, I guess that doesn’t apply to audio in most cases.
They are 100% right and it still applies to audio but as servicable things are if the part no longer exists it no longer exists. But yeah Vintage electronics were made to be serviced not be replaced its just how it is now.
Materials just have an expirey date alot of the time and vintage drivers used paper cones and foam surrounds and they just decay with time. Looked after they will last but again no matter how easy to repair something is you still need to be able to aquire the part. Had some Whafedale Valdus 500’s that I had to get rid of as each drivers surround decayed beyond repair and the drivers were paper too. Just a compleat mess. But they were super easy to take apart and clean/fix.
It’s mostly true, caps wear out in older gear, but you are good for at least 30 years and generally twice that unless you are unlucky. Transformer cores can delaminate, which is usually a death sentence for the device, but again it’s usually 50+ years.
Amp design really hasn’t changed much in 50+ years, so vintage gear can be a really good way to go if you know what your getting into.
Great DAC’s from 20years ago are still great DAC’s though there has been more motion there, but you start to lose features as you go back, no USB, limited sample rate support etc.
Speakers are where things get less definitive, modern speakers are generally better constructed, Neodymium magnets are relatively recent (though still not a standard in speaker drivers) , and if the drivers use foam surrounds they can disintegrate. Still some truly great older speakers, but you have to me more careful.
Something to note though with buying anything vintage, if you buy high end it will stay high end so look for things previously on the upper tiers if you can, if you buy very low end vintage stuff it might not serve you as well or be worthwhile over the current budget offerings
I know that can happen, but I’ve never known anyone that’s ever actually had that happen to them on a quality piece, so it seems pretty exceedingly uncommon even with more vintage amps. Caps wearing out though is much more common
I’ve only ever seen it in REALLY old gear, pre WW2 radios, basically they still work, but the transformers will buzz audibly.
If you turn the device on and the transformer doesn’t buzz after it warms up, I wouldn’t worry about it.
Replacing caps is very common on vintage guitar amps. Even with hifi gear its not something i would worry about.
There is a market for vintage caps you just need to worry about drift. A lot of times fir the guitar pots and caps you can buy less desired specs that drifted into what you need. Also a lot of the holy grail “bumble bee” caps werent too exact when new.