There’s just too many variables to have problems with, there’s probably a reason he doesn’t market them as well lol
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I was thinking the same, I can’t imagine troubleshooting an ecosystem like that. The other thing that’s kinds of impressive is that a one box solution can then sound as good as it does given every type of machination the Totaldac system goes through to eek out that last bit of magic from the digital file.
It sounds like you’re getting closer to your goal, or maybe you’ll decide you’re even there already given your initial thoughts. But man, mere mortals like me, I couldn’t even begin to wrap my brain around all of the possibilities of just even nuanced changes that are introduced with cabling options.
One other thing that screams to me in reading through this. The theoretical Redbook audio based on 16/44 being the requirement to be able to perfectly reproduce audio. In the theoretical at least.
It seems like chains such as this Totaldac go a long way towards supporting that claim.
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It’s all based on the design, there’s pros and cons to having everything in different boxes. Some designers like to separate everything out, some like to keep things as close as possible in one box, both valid designs, both can sound great.
After listening more, I am pretty much there, not sure if I’ll really go any farther, but who knows lol, I just have a feeling the rest of the chain would be too big of a bottleneck
The cable thing is weird, I can see why it could potentially change more given it’s syncing channels together, made a larger difference than swapping interconnects for example, more difference than the aes cable change too, although it was just a quick swap so I’ll need to evaluate that further to confirm. It was also a very stark difference in cable quality too so likely wasn’t the most fair
Redbook sounds phenomenal on the totaldac, some dacs do perform better when things are upsampled to high res or are high res natively, but this really handles everything quite well. I will say that perhaps the Pacific handled native dsd better than the totaldac does, but not really a problem or anything though, it’s still amazing, but from the quick sacds I put though it, I remember the Pacific doing it a bit better, but again haven’t exactly tested that with enough time and confidence to say (and I can’t anymore since I don’t have the Pacific in house lol). But really all the sigma delta lampi sound better with dsd imo (doesn’t mean you should automatically upsample everything to dsd or take it off your list if you only have pcm though) so there could be some sacrifice on the pcm side of things. As much as I love dsd and have a sizable amount of sacd, realistically I push much more pcm though a dac than I do dsd so that will always take the priority for me personally. I used to have dacs more exclusively used for dsd, but those got purged when I was doing my initial downsize
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Just pointing out that you also said this when you got the pacific…
Now that im done hassling you just a couple quick questions about usage:
- Pure curiosity, but do you stream much? Or do you mostly focus on local files? Im kinda currious how far source files can limit stuff when streaming from say quobuz/tidal/etc
- Did you use the pacific mostly for cans? Or were impressions a mix of can/speaker usage?
Just asking to try and put in perspective the level of differences you are getting for myself tbh.
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Can’t really argue about that lol
No streaming whatsoever. Nope. Nada. Entirely physical library I’ve built up over the years. If there’s something new I like I’ll just buy it as lossless. Fair amount of high res and I also collect SACD if I can. Also with the K50, I’ve found that local file playback sounds better than pulling from my local storage server as well, so now anytime I want to have a very serious listening session, I am pulling music from a local file share and dumping it onto the SSD of that music server first. Although pulling from my hot storage server in the server closet is still plenty good for even fairly serious listening. But local directly on the antipodes sounds best with my setup. And it is not a small difference at this point
Mostly all headphones. I did use them with speakers at the desk like voxativ hagen (mainly driven by studio t) and joseph pulsar2 graphene (mainly driven by the aic-10 or demone), and then briefly with my PMC system before I sold that. Never tried in my living room 2ch enough to make any sort of comment there.
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Still no comments on the actual sound of the twelve, but out of curiosity I did try more clock cables (yes I know I shouldn’t be doing this during acclimation but I really wanted to), and the differences are interesting. It actually uses 75 ohm spdif bnc cables as the clock cable, so I could I had a few on hand so why not. I have an old Acrolink 7N-DA6100 (which my friend threw in with the dac), a Black Cat Tron Reference mk iii, VooDoo Evolution (with bnc adapters), Snake River Boomslang, and the venerable Oyaide DR-510 (with bnc adapters). I don’t really have many spdif cables lying around anymore since I really mainly use aes at this point
I spent more time on this than I should, and also involved someone else to decide if they liked it or not cause why not. Keep in mind this is just one of the cables that connects one monoblock to the other, there’s also a rca spdif that connects them for control signals as well, for now I also have a lesser acrolink on there too, from brief experimentation it didn’t matter as much so I likely won’t touch it until I figure out the clock sync cable.
Quick notes:
Acrolink: This was the most relatively neutral sounding cable while also being the most technical, although perhaps slightly more micro focused that did leave me longing for a bit more macro performance. Midrange and treble were awesome, but I did wish bass was a bit more aggressive and less delicate sounding here. Spatially very deep and fairly wide but didn’t feel as organic as another option here. Dynamically pretty strong in both directions. Excellent resolving power, texture, and speed and separation. Slightly on the lighter side of things for tonal density but still fairly neutral. Overall I like it and it’s a solid all rounder sans slightly wanting more in the bass
Black Cat: This was my 2nd favorite, tilted a bit more toward the warm, wide and relaxed side of things but not enough to overwhelm in my system, technicalities are close to the Acrolink but that cable was able to eek out a bit more from the system than this one, spatially it is actually a bit more involving and grand while being slightly less deep but more wide, it did have a blacker background to my ears. Adds a bit more weight onto things which was nice, dynamically took a bit of a stronger macro focus in this case, without really letting down in micro, resolution, speed and separation, and texture was strong, timbre was very very good here, potentially better than the acrolink. Keeping this for later when I get further acclimated, my 2nd favorite but for now I will stick with the acrolink
VooDoo: I’m not sure here, I think this is like the black cat but it leans too far into the warm and rich territory in my setup, not as technical, would want better. I think more dark in both signature and presentation, seems to trade some technical ability for more natural weighting and presentation
Snake River: Actually pretty balanced with a slight lean toward the organic over technical side of things, again I think this just isn’t a capable enough cable to be worth it though, might like it more than the voodoo in this setup though
Oyaide: nah, unfortunately this just didn’t satisfy and smeared things too much, sort of signature like the voodoo but just not capable enough in the end. To be fair though it is cheap in comparison
Quickly back to the clarity and immediacy comment earlier, moving below the acrolink or black cat lead to that somewhat being diminished, so you don’t want to skimp on the clock interlink between the dacs.
Oh and the other person preferred the black cat the most where I thought the acrolink was a bit better
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Because the very small contact area, a BNC connection is one place I’d be very curious to try something like this. Wurth is the oposite of a snake oil company. If you’re brave enough.
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I might try something like that, I’ve seen friends do it, but idk something about potentially gunking up my components does give me pause lol. Something to consider is that many higher end audio products don’t exactly use the common connector materials and some use exotic metals and coatings on their plugs and whatnot, so I’d be slightly concerned if something like this could potentially react with that stuff. Not sure if that’s a reasonable concern or not
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That’s why you use it on the Oyaide cable first. See what it does. lol
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Think I’ve put a wider range of stuff through the totaldac system (the past few days I feel like I’ve done nothing but listen at every opportunity I can), I can confidently say I don’t think I made the wrong choice here lol. I also finally think I understand what this dac can do enough to actually comment on it more. I also feel like I screwed up my back lugging the kassandra to be used at the desk for quick comparison as well (which it will likely stay there for a bit since I’m not in a hurry to move it again, also garage racks ftw in that they can handle the weight lol).
Fair warning, I both will and will not really cover sound here, it’s hard to articulate what’s properly going on (well for the most part it always is like that, but even more so here lol). While I don’t typically talk about the kassandra as other dacs I have had, it likely was the most well rounded out of everything else I have heard, including things like the pacific and the d1-direct. Even with the things that the direct and pacific brought to the table, I don’t think either of them were able to achieve the level of refinement and balance the kassandra did, but I think the twelve has finally surpassed that while also having somewhat stronger technical ability. The kassandra has long been my silent benchmark for dac quality honestly (regardless if I accepted that was the case or not lol), and this is one case where while listening to the twelve where I’m not thinking about if I would want to be listening to the kassandra or not. I still don’t think it’s as tonally balanced as the kassandra, but it is more technically balanced and potentially more refined as well.
Something about the twelve’s bass carries an unparalleled amount of texture that I have never heard in any other system I have demoed, and coupled with the raw command the dac has over the low end makes it stand out immensely to me that I have not had happen with another dac. The combination of how nuanced, technical, and pinpoint things appear while having such control, weight, and liquidity in the low end is really just something to sit back and take in.
Another really stand out thing is the generally immediacy of this dac, it’s strange, I’ve never gotten this sense of raw directness from a dac without it sounding entirely fucked, but this somehow does it. Things just come and go so quickly and can stop on a dime, but linger if that’s what was in the recording (while keeping weighing proper too). I think when the time domain is this precise that’s just what happens lol. I think this factor really contributes to the enhanced sense of realism with some recordings I’ve listened to imo.
Spatially it’s both huge when it needs to be, but also reaches a level of intimacy I have not heard before when the recording portrays that (enough to get inside your head in a very disturbing way lol), it’s range in how it stages can really really adapt to how things are being represented from recording to recording. Likely the most accurate placement to the recording I have heard yet. I will say, the kassandra may be able to manage more natural feeling staging, but the totaldac does surpass it in terms of accuracy and precision along with scale, but might feel a bit less natural. It’s hard to articulate how well things can be placed here, but it does a damn good job
Now I will say, when it comes to treble extension and air, there are those that can do more delicate treble better, potentially the pacific with the right tubes or the kassandra, but this doesn’t sacrifice anything in the treble and I can easily look past that given the price point, it has same or better resolution and almost similar clarity and refinement.
Dynamically it’s a beast in both macro and micro, I don’t think I’ve heard this level of micro before, macro the kassandra might be close but I still think the twelve steps ahead a bit. There’s so much power that’s also so effortlessly controlled when there needs to be, and plenty of small nuance and low level change goodness to take in as well. It’s presented in a very unassuming manner that really does not exaggerate or underperform unless the recording calls for it. This has allowed a fair bit more energy and liveliness in some tracks that I thought I was listening to a different master or something lol
I already touched on weighting previously so don’t need to comment there again
Resolution is great, most resolving dac I have had in this system for sure, hard to complain there when it’s so organically presented as well.
I think the idea of purity comes to mind when listening to this dac, it feels both very devoid of coloration and also colored in a way that’s hard to describe but enriches the experience overall, not sure how I manage to get the sense of both of those at the same time lol. There isn’t such a thing as an audio product that’s without coloration, but this gets closer than a lot of other dacs I have heard.
There’s really too much going on on the intangibles side of things that it’s not really that easily explainable, and I would also assume that is really what’s driving most of the experience here anyways.
Overall, so far, this really has taken my main desk setup to the next level, but it’s also given me a further appreciation for the kassandra in what that does well and how worthwhile that is too. It’s not a matter of keeping one over the other since they fill different setup’s roles, and I do like the totaldac somewhat more, but the kassandra still has a few aspects that aren’t exactly bested by the twelve.
Not enough listening to make proper comparisons yet, but this whole mass of totaldac boxes doesn’t have much competition from what I’ve heard anyways, the only things that I’ve had enough to comment on would be the pacific and the kassandra, and it feels like it’s a step above a pacific fairly easily, and a half step above the kassandra actually. Don’t feel comfortable making any comparisons to things I’ve only heard in demo so don’t plan on doing it
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I’m genuinely happy for you man, it’s a level where mistakes can potentially become financially painful. Even though I can’t begin to imagine the level these things are at, I’m at least able to comprehend the phrasing and descriptions you’re throwing out now because I’ve heard them at least at a fraction in my Weiss/LTA pairing getting sucked into the sounds within my music that I wasn’t aware of previously.
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It really is both amazing to hear the benefits, but also sucks because you can’t go back lol
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LOL funny you say that… as I was reading your commentary I said to myself, there was a time when I would have jumped at the chance to listen to a system at that level. Now I’m not so sure simply because I’m so happy where I am, why fuck with that?
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I think you’d still be safe listening to a higher level system, you can appreciate it but also potentially also further appreciate your own system. But where it gets dangerous would be an in home demo of a specific piece, that can really throw people off lol
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Quick summary of how I’m feeling at the current moment for both the Twelve (with drivers) other options with the same digital and power gear overall, will edit later if anything changes, some of these are from memory now (since I no longer have them, but fresh enough to make a good enough comparison imo)
What the symbols mean:
= means about similar, perhaps slight edge to the first over the 2nd
>= means a bit better, noticeable but not enough to push it over the next tier edge
> means fairly better but not massively so, next tier better but not decidedly so
>> means stand out better, pretty easily noticeable, easily next tier better or a bit above
>>> means skipping multiple tiers, leagues better
Comparisons:
Twelve (w/ drivers & live powers) VS Kassandra
Resolution: Twelve >> Kassandra
Speed: Twelve >> Kassandra
Separation: Twelve > Kassandra
Control and Grip: Twelve > Kassandra
Impact and Slam: Kassandra = Twelve
Texture: Twelve >> Kassandra
Treble Extension: Kassandra >= Twelve
Bass Extension: Twelve >> Kassandra
Microdynamics: Twelve >> Kassandra
Macrodynamics: Twelve >= Kassandra
Background Blackness: Twelve >> Kassandra
Stage Width: Twelve >> Kassandra
Stage Depth: Twelve >> Kassandra
Placement Accuracy: Twelve >> Kassandra
Presentation Organicness: Twelve >= Kassandra
Timbre: Twelve > Kassandra
Tonality Organicness: Kassandra >= Twelve
Tonal Density Quantity: Kassandra >= Twelve
Tonal Density Quality: Twelve >> Kassandra
Smoothness: Kassandra >= Twelve
Liquidity: Twelve >> Kassandra
Forwardness: Kassandra >= Twelve
Forgivingness: Twelve > Kassandra
Overall Treble: Twelve >= Kassandra
Overall Midrange: Twelve >> Kassandra
Overall Bass: Twelve >> Kassandra
If I remove the driver from the system, the comparison actually gets somewhat closer, still definite edge to the totaldac, but the drivers are pulling their weight here as an output stage as the internal output stage when enabled is not as good. I wonder how much the strong output stage and psu of the kassandra are contributing to it’s closeness in some of the areas are here
I think overall the better intangible performance of the totaldac really pulls it ahead overall, the AC sounds like it has the analog section but can’t draw enough from it’s digital section, and now feels like it lags 1-2 tiers behind the twelve system
Twelve (w/ drivers & live powers) VS Pacific (RK PX25 & 5U4G)
Resolution: Twelve > Pacific
Speed: Twelve >> Pacific
Separation: Twelve > Pacific
Control and Grip: Twelve >> Pacific
Impact and Slam: Twelve >> Pacific
Texture: Twelve > Pacific
Treble Extension: Pacific > Twelve
Bass Extension: Twelve >> Pacific
Microdynamics: Twelve >= Pacific
Macrodynamics: Twelve >> Pacific
Background Blackness: Twelve > Pacific
Stage Width: Pacific >= Twelve
Stage Depth: Twelve > Pacific
Placement Accuracy: Twelve > Pacific
Presentation Organicness: Twelve > Pacific
Timbre: Twelve >= Pacific
Tonality Organicness: Twelve >= Pacific
Tonal Density Quantity: Twelve >= Pacific
Tonal Density Quality: Twelve >> Pacific
Smoothness: Pacific >= Twelve
Liquidity: Twelve > Pacific
Forwardness: Pacific > Twelve
Forgivingness: Twelve > Pacific
Overall Treble: Pacific >= Twelve
Overall Midrange: Twelve > Pacific
Overall Bass: Twelve >> Pacific
The Pacific has some delicacy and sweetness in the treble and midrange that the Twelve doesn’t quite attain, along with a seemingly larger stage, but the Pacific doesn’t have the raw technical ability to keep up in most aspects, and it’s more light handed approach really shows through compared to the more heavy handed approach of the Totaldac. Swapping the tubes to something like 242 in the Pacific can improve it’s macro performance, but personally I think that loses something special about the dac compared to somewhat sweeter tubes, I thought the PX25 was the best balance for my tastes
Twelve VS Direct
Just overall better, more refined, and a bit more neutral, not much more to say here
For more context:
Kassandra vs Pacific (RK PX25 & 5U4G)
Resolution: Pacific > Kassandra
Speed: Kassandra = Pacific
Separation: Pacific > Kassandra
Control and Grip: Kassandra >> Pacific
Impact and Slam: Kassandra >> Pacific
Texture: Pacific > Kassandra
Treble Extension: Pacific >= Kassandra
Bass Extension: Kassandra > Pacific
Microdynamics: Pacific > Kassandra
Macrodynamics: Kassandra >= Pacific
Background Blackness: Pacific > Kassandra
Stage Width: Pacific > Kassandra
Stage Depth: Pacific > Kassandra
Placement Accuracy: Pacific > Kassandra
Presentation Organicness: Kassandra > Pacific
Timbre: Pacific >= Kassandra
Tonality Organicness: Kassandra >= Pacific
Tonal Density Quantity: Kassandra >= Pacific
Tonal Density Quality: Kassandra = Pacific
Smoothness: Pacific >= Kassandra
Liquidity: Pacific > Kassandra
Forwardness: Kassandra >= Pacific
Forgivingness: Pacific > Kassandra
Overall Treble: Pacific >= Kassandra
Overall Midrange: Pacific > Kassandra
Overall Bass: Kassandra > Pacific
The Pacific does eclipse the Kassandra in things like resolving power, spatial recreation, texture, and liquidity, but the Kassandra just has overall more balance, more organic presentation of things imo, and very strong macro performance in comparison (at least with the Pacific not running 242) that can make it a more energetic and lively listening experience.
I’m debating if I should do any more comparisons because the twelve is just a noticeable step up from what I’ve had before, and I don’t really think any of the other dacs I’ve listened to recently hold up to where there would be enough potential trading of blows. I think the other potentially most worthwhile comparisons would have been the Alpha Reference 3, HD + MPS, and DAC 5 Special v2, potentially also the Wavedream Signature, but it’s been too long since I’ve heard those to do that comparison right now, I’d want to really sit and think about that for awhile and compare past notes and comparisons for something more accurate.
Will likely update this with more comparisons if I ever feel like it/feel confident enough to make them right now
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That stuff seems a little like a cleaner. I would be weary of anything that says it leaves a film. It also says/alludes it doesnt have conductivity between pins, which how? Probably still very worth it as connectors get way more dirt and corrosion on them than you would expect.
the idea of these coatings are to fill in gaps that would otherwise not be metal to metal contact. When pins touch the point of contact is always much smaller than the surface area due to poor mating surfaces. So this is supposed to bridge those microscopic gaps between surfaces that would normally just be an air gap. The additional benefit is that it would then reduce oxidation in those air gap areas.
I’m thinking of buying one just for the hell of it and trying it out first in my AC cables.
The larger the mating surface and the more frequently there’s insertion and removal, the less you’re likely to need this kind of stuff in the first place.
I’ve really wanted to write more about this dac, but I’ve just accepted I can’t really lol. I already felt I couldn’t say what was going on with the direct and the pacific, and this is just another level of something I am just not able to describe. So sorry about this useless post lol
Ignoring how this thing sounds for a second, only having one dac at my main desk now feels pretty nice, not having to mess around with wanting to switch or warm one up when I wanted to use it (pacific). And having a lot less amps at my desk (at least that are still connected) is also a lot easier since it’s more just plug it in and don’t worry about it rather than having to switch things all the time or feel the need to use an amp just because it’s there
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Tfw its midfi hell all the way up. Ive jokingly said for a while that you only truly eacape midfi hell when you can only justify the cost of a single setup. I dont know how to feel about thohghts seemingly confirming that
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I think the justification manifests itself in that you realize that taking it to the “next level” you probably would have to take a second mortgage or cash out your 401k or something just as drastic.
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