As a side question - why Kimber axios? Copper silver or hybrid?
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Hybrid, and it’s just because it was the first cable I got that worked with the mysphere lol. I still like the sound of it, but I’ve been thinking of upgrading it, but just really haven’t felt the need tbh. Really been eying the brise ever since @hifiDJ got one. Have a custom cable from a friend for the 3.1 since I wanted a direct speaker tap cable that exceeds the performance of the kimber, also because the kimber didn’t do well with the 3.1 as it did the 3.2 (and I didn’t want to be swapping cables all the time)
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Will let you know how the brise is with the 3.2!
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I feel brise does one of the best jobs at just extending what a headphone does well and does it pretty naturally.
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And it’s nice you get some pretty quality craftsmanship too… and very good communication lol
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@orrman readjusted utopia a bit, you’re right I did have it a bit too high, decided to move it below the 009s, also moved d8000p above the 1266tc. Other changes of last night was:
Headphones: moving the gh50 above the ether 2 (enjoy it more and can scale more), moving hemps above verum 1 (hemps more unique and interesting to me), moved 7506 over 58x (7506 more technical and refined)
Dacs: moved mojo above lavry (mojo is a higher technical level), moved sfd below baltic (been too long since I’ve heard the sfd so moved lower to be safe), moved meitner above merason (meitner more technical in the end), moved crane song above yggy (crane song more technical and more refined with less drawbacks although less fun)
Cables: moved snake river ic above tara labs ic (snake river more organic while close technicality wise), moved audience power above inakustic (audience strikes better balance of organicness and directness), moved eletech above rhapsodio cable (mistake I didn’t catch), added jps sc as holy shit top- (since it is a good cable but still unsure if it should be on there)
Finished estat amp section, thank god since I hate talking about stats and stat amps lol
Also fully finished the + - within ranks to better convey difference but those will likely continue to change as I decide how I want to feel
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the D8kp and ADX5k are my targets headphones on Mon’s tier list.
@M0N have you heard the Atrium or Caldera? Curious as ZMF doesn’t get that high on your list so wondering if the tuning/performance isn’t your preference? Was also curious as the atrium and caldera are supposedly more technical than VC/VO so may rank higher.
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Good targets lol
No, haven’t really been interested myself, don’t know any friends who’ve been interested, and haven’t been able to make it to shows so I haven’t had a chance yet.
I don’t mind the tuning, but I think for the price they command the technical performance just isn’t inline with other offerings, and they don’t scale all that well. Still like them for specific cases, but imo they’re a harder sell compared to other options from a value and sound perspective in most cases. Then again my viewpoints are fairly skewed with pretty high end chains where other headphones absolutely take off and leave the zmf in the dust but if I was still rocking midfi or entry hifi chains I might have rated them higher than I do now
Could, I just don’t really know. The caldera from most respects does seem like a general technical step up, but I’ve seen enough people say the atrium is about the same as or less than the verite technicality wise so that one seems a lot more iffy to me. I’ll get to them eventually once either used prices get reasonable or I have a change of heart
Somewhat put off by the recent actions of zmf (such as stalking people across platforms that don’t like their headphone, further catering to special/ltd versions instead of actually improving what they have all that much, don’t like the direction they seem to be going as a company) but really I just don’t have much interest after not really being wowed by current offerings. Have nothing against the company, and totally willing to give them another chance, but just not really right now with my own money as I don’t feel the need to
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If you read from the top of the ZMF thread, I think it’s coverred in there, @M0N and I have very similar takes on the Verite, there was a point a couple of years ago where he even used the Verite Closed in preference to the Utopia. But as his source chain evolved, that very much changed.
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And @orrman that’s probably why I had (and still have) the utopia so high, it’s a genuinely impressive headphone and on a truly excellent chain I think it can perform a lot higher than you might expect. And when it’s not (like I was running it with a gsx mk2 and holo dac? (actually don’t remember dac) when I had it in for a first home demo at the time) it really falls behind lol
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I don’t totally disagree and obviously I haven’t heard the OG on the super high end chains you have.
I guess I just have a few other headphones in between the Susvara and Utopia for instance that’ll make that distance on the list maybe feel a little larger.
I do think it deserves a very high spot. My list would simply look a little different I guess.
My biggest qualm with the Utopia and tbh with Focal in general is comfort - it doesn’t sit comfortably on my head.
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My memory isn’t what it used to be for conversations 2 or 3 years ago, but it was either the Spring 2 KTE or you may have just picked up the AC Kassandra in that time frame, starting your extremely deep slide into the DAC rabbit hole.
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Makes sense. I do think that if some aspects of the headphone weren’t as unique as they are it wouldn’t be as high up.
Of course lol, I’m sure most would have a different list to mine, would honestly be surprised if someone ended up similar to mine lol.
I had issues with the elegia but for me the clear and utopia were fine, wouldn’t call them comfy but didn’t have issues either
Ah also another big boost to the utopia is with the lazuli nirvana, genuinely really bumps up the headphone for me, super important
Sounds about right lol, pretty sure it was a 2kte or a may. Every time I heard the utopia at shows beforehand it was on lackluster chains as well so never gave me the impression that I was missing something on my own chain either for that headphone lol
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This is such a difficult one. I find the 1266 so hard to rank generally.
I appreciate the 1266 phi tc for what it does, and it’s hard to find anything else that plays in the same space. It’s a lot of fun if you can live with it’s flaws it could easily be some ones #1 headphone.
I personally can’t unhear them and I think I’m with you on the D8KP as the better headphone, I guess this is why ranking lists are so hard.
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I think this is an under discussed point… Where having TOTL chains may create 1 set of rankings or preferences. Whereas the same person with lower level gear can change those rankings significantly. Perhaps on one hand something like a Caldera could be at a similar level as a Sus for someone with Midlevel gear like me. So it could be a positive that it performs well and mid prices and then a negative because it won’t scale as well. That’s a new dynamic I need to start thinking about when I make gear investments.
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I’d argue this is absolutely true.
I’ve posted this elsewhere, at some point you have to decide what you want to pursue, you can’t compare things in isolation it’s not Susvara vs MySphere, it’s Susvara on chain A vs MySphere on chain B.
Or whatever else you want to bring into this.
Synergy is a thing, and it’s more important not less with higher performing gear, and optimal chains A and B above could be VERY different for any given price point.
It’s why ranking things in isolation is so hard.
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Pretty much as you said. It’s really cool for what it is, it’s expensive for what it is, and it’s something that’s also hard to unhear some of of the shortcomings imo. It’s something that I appreciate, but have gradually soured on over time throughout different chains.
I don’t want to short change them because I can totally see them being ideal for someone depending on tastes and chains, but for me other headphones fill their role better for what I want, and this is also my list with my preferences and chains so it’s getting pushed down a bit because of that
That’s basically one of the reasons I made the biases section, to try and make any potential ways my list will be shifted from the “average person” and to give people more insight/context to account for, pretty sure I discuss it in there somewhat. Without that it leaves a lot of info not discussed that those that know/interact with me probably have, but someone who hasn’t or barely has probably doesn’t have
Yeah makes it a pain in the ass. There are chains that can get both done reasonably well/equally but that’s far and few inbetween and typically really expensive lol, and it’s not going to be totally equal either. But yes most chains aren’t like that. It’s all about chain building and optimization in this range
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I think it’s also a very underrated positive that a can like the D8KP can sound great on a RNHP amp and greater still on my LTA UL+. I think the flagship cans that sound great on mid-fi gear are fewer and farther between.
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Everything in the above is simply saying the same thing - buy what’s right for you. Your ears, your preferences, your chain, your goals etc
This list is invaluable for me at least as a reference to sound interpretations and I find the descriptions more important than the ranking most times. Blindly buying based on how high something is wouldn’t lead me far though, I think.
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I know you’re not saying this, or anyone else for that matter, but I’ve seen conversations like this on discord where someone says “you don’t appreciate XYZ because your chain isn’t expensive enough, so I’m right and you’re wrong because I have more money than you.” Again, no one here is saying that but it’s a trigger for me , and a reason that I generally stay away from Reddit and discord.
I don’t disagree that a chain with more synergy (which may or may not be TOTL) is much more likely to sound better, but there are so many other factors, like what kind of music you listen to, whether you enjoy a brighter/warmer/neutral tuning, whether you care about detail or speed, are you sensitive to peaks or dips at certain frequencies etc etc.
If you like something I hate or vice versa, I think that’s a fantastic opportunity to figure out why. Hopefully we can find that Rosetta Stone that allows us to to make recommendations to try something, maybe because I disliked it but think you will like it.
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