I felt it took the fun factor up one level over my Rockna and the smooth liquid naturalness two levels up. It was probably even more apparent because of the WA23 and its very tube signature and the Meze Elite that was just so comfortable and smooth as well.
I can see how that chain is good alternative to something more technical punchy raw texture but not sure I’d like that type of sound to be my main chain. Definitely less so for electronic music. Perhaps if most of what I listened to was lounge or acoustic vocals etc
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I could see that, I personally preferred a wavedream sig over the mola mola, but I think I could see myself taking the mola moal over the regular wd (just from pure technicalities), that smoothness and liquidity really is the standout for that dac and in comparison I don’t think that’s something the rockna does as well. More resolving than the rockna on the surface level, although I think smaller nuances feel a bit off with the mola mola. Granted I think the rockna is more impressive in other aspects such as stage width and grandness, macrodynamics, and really directness which is something I think the mola mola lacks a bit.
While I’ve not heard the wa23, if I imagine it as a wa33 in technicalities + the signature of a wa5, I can totally see how that could be a real solid pairing, it would balance itself out a bit. I’d be curious to hear what you would think with a more capable headphone than the meze though
That liquidity though is one of the unique aspects of the mola mola, that sort of liquidity is uncommon with the sort of cleaner yet weighty voicing that makes it only really sound like a select few other dacs. If I take another dac that’s fantastic at liquidity around the same range, a nagra classic + nice psu, they’re very different sounds as the nagra is a lot more focusing on organicness and warmth with a more relaxed and balanced take and doesn’t have that forwardness, cleanliness, and wow factor of the mola mola.
Actually, weird take, but the berkeley rs3 has fantastic liquidity, that is if you play high quality material through it and not when playing crap (or with a bad source), wheras the mola mola has almost an always on level of liquidity alongside a bit more weightiness and softness. I think the berkeley is a lot more accurate (and another dac I found myself using in place of the mola mola) but the mola mola was consistently more “fun”. The rs3 is a pretty large technical step above the mola mola but much much better value used. There’s more comparisons that could be drawn between the mola mola and berk, but I think the more at times ruthless and honest character of the berk would make it hard to say it’s an upgrade along a similar vein
I think that’s another point against the mola mola to be honest, they’re a bit of a harder sell value wise at both new and used prices, but they are one of those dacs where if you buy new you can sell for around that so it’s not a risky buy like some others might be. I think if they dropped the price a bit I’d find them a bit more appealing, but with where it sits value wise it’s a bit of a harder sell
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If I could choose between the two I would take the WD without skipping a beat. I don’t see myself owning the Mola Mola as my single DAC which is the case with that price range. I do though with the WD Sig. Maybe the question then is not what DAC does it better technically but which can resemble it from the lower end spectrum just to have an alternative listening experience.
I also need more time just with the WA23 to extrapolate what contributed to what I heard better. Unfortunately Woo said there’s no available amp to audition at the moment. Someone bought the show model and they’re built to order.
When I switched the Meze to my own D8KPLE there was an immediate step up technically and a sense of gruntness added which I personally really like. Textures were better perceived and I think it still preserved the wowness of the chain. Both my brother and I were super impressed by the Elite and then when we tried the Final it was like"ha that’s even better". It was a quiet room on the side so was better for listening but far from critical so I’d love to try more of it somehow.
I’m starting to think the D8KP LE is a good match with Woo amps (@Draaly really liked it with the WA33 I believe).
As for the Berk - I never heard it but I’m very curious how I’d feel about it. Sometimes your descriptions of it push me away thinking I’d hate how in your face technical truth of recording it’ll be but sometimes I think it might be perfect for my music collection.
Just FWIW, this is not how I would clasify the sound of the WA23. I cant get a grip on ultimate technicality at a show obviously, but its at least in teh same ball park as wa33. But the sound sig is honestly more wa22 than wa5 imo. Hyper dyanmic and tactile with much more “normal” 2A3 staging than wa33 has. Honestly, if I realy had to try and pin it down, I would say 2/3rd the way to mogwai presentation/sweetness and 2/3rd the way to wa33 in raw control and tactility. Its quite exaggerated like wa5 but I dont feel like its in the same way tbh.
I think its less “I think d8kp is a good match for woo” as much as it is “I like wa23 with basically everything and d8kp masks my issues of ‘boringness’ with the wa33”
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Hmmmmm I’d say on the lower end side of things the closest comparison I might draw would be chord stuff (although more colored toward their digital ish house sound, and also brighter and a bit more forward and a bit less sweet), but even then I don’t know if there’s a close match in the lower end side of things, it’s a fairly unique sounding dac and that’s hard to really put into words (then again isn’t everything I guess lol)
Gotcha gotcha thanks for the info
I personally thought it was a bit much and a bit too dry on the wa33 for my tastes and I liked amps that were a bit sweeter and actually a bit more on the looser side of things, but it was still good.
Honestly I don’t think it’s a bad trait in practice, but then again I really don’t mind hearing some of the unpleasantness of music. As long as it’s there natively and not being added by something in the chain. I should say the berk is never straight up painful or unbearable, it’s just really going to show you what you pay, and it will sound really mediocre if you feed it mediocre stuff lol
Good to know, really gotta try one since it really seems like feedback is super positive. Honestly while I really like the technical performance of the wa33ee, I never decided to own one because I do think it’s a bit flat and not as interesting and immersive as other amps around that range, so getting something that’s a bit more organic and sweeter and a bit less focused on overall control and clarity would be appreciated, would really likely be an improvement for my preferences. The wa33 felt like it’s leaning into being as “reference” as it can a bit too much and losing out on some of the other aspects that make a good amp good. It’s all around good, but at the same time only something I would really want to use for very specific headphones (like the susvara that really benefit from having that added energy and directness, but even then there’s other amps around a similar range that give it that + a lot more other worthwhile aspects)
Would make sense to me, the wa33 + d8kp really isn’t as engaging of a pairing as other amps
Extremely well put. I honestly just have nothing to complain about on an objective level, but the amp has never made me bob my head or tap my foot.
Maybe ideon ayazi mk2? Ive only heard mola at shows, but I have heard every amp (+sus every time) that used mola also on another dac and ayazi feels like it does similar-ish. Brutal honesty and clarity but very organic flow. I classify ayazi mk2 kind of as weiss - a bit of relism + a bit more liquidity. It is a step down in performance by its self and I havent heard it with the reclocker though.
D8KP LE sounds more like D8K then D8KP in terms of tonality and presentation FWIW. It realy realy increases stage depth, separation, texture (espeicaly vocal and bass), and detail over d8k though. IMO, even at an effective 2x the price of the d8kp (used) the LE is still the very easy pick of the trio. Also, I havent had one at home, but I am nearly positive that the detail level is a step above d8kp. Maybe the best explination of the sound would be rad-0 with d8kp texture and detail? Not completely sure how I feel about that comparison but its not super far off at least.
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I owned the 3es ee and that was great but that’s only because I hadn’t heard a better estat amp at the time (in retrospect I really just should have gotten the stx off the bat since I already loved the 845) but while I enjoyed it, I have to wonder if it contributed to my eventual decision to ditch stats
I was also going to mention weiss, but I think weiss is clean in a different sort of way for me, really need to hear those ideon dacs lol
Oh that’s cool, need to try one of those eventually as well
Interesting
Edit: I should really do an estat amp list real quick, I just hate talking about estat energizers since I have less experience there lol
Frankly, if it was me, I would have ditched estats having that Amp as well. The stx and T2 are different tiers of enjoyment for me personally.
I think you could probabaly do this pretty broadly with just “in this price range maybe give xyz a look” as opposed to the way you formatted the rest of the shit list.
I didn’t really like the T2 as much with the shangri la, but I bet the stx is likely more up my alley. If I wanted to focus stax though I’d have gone t2
I’ll likely just format as normal (and update a few dac rankings as well, potentially also add extra rankings within rankings like top+ or top- for example but we’ll see
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I think it works extremely well with the X9000.
Can’t say if the STX was better because of show conditions.
Haven’t heard it on the T2 (yet lol).
Would stay away of the Grand Cayman tbh
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I would do that anyways given my opinions on the BHSE and other gilmore amps lol, was very disappointed with the bhse and shang pairup, really not good, but nice with stax although still not my thing
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My shang experience is with Grand Cayman and 3ES and I’m still waiting to be wowed I guess.
I wasn’t impressed with the GC and X9K as well.
Only gilmore amp I heard and liked so far is the gs-x mini and that was with very balancing gear around it.
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Same here, the mini hits a nice sweet spot in both price/performance and the general sound that I don’t mind, I think the gsx mk2 and the diy designs take it too far, and the lower end gilmore stuff is a bit dated at this point for the prices they go for. And estat wise I like the t2 diy but even then it’s still not exactly my thing, although I think that’s easily the best build he’s made
Do you know what source they had for the shang + 3es at the show (and if it was an elite or regular)?
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Shang/3es was not at the show, sorry for not making that clear.
The 3ES they had in the show was the regular one, not the elite, and I enjoyed it A LOT with the X9K.
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Honestly, GC wasnt for me, but I also wouldnt mind recomending it to others like I do for BHSE. IMO, GC is a massive massive step up and fairly inline with 3ES elite, T2, and Viva stx tier wise. It prioritizes timbre and organic presentation though and sounded a bit more rounded than the other show setups, but not enough to truly drop it a tier imo. Honestly, the most suprising estat thing to me was that T2 got a little flabby in the bass on shang sr. It was using shit tubes and a shit dac, but I still didnt expect that and havent ever heard anyone mention it either. Both the GC has similar bass to 3ES imo and the stx is between 3es and t2 in both tactility/control and qty imo. the stx was the sweet spot for me at the show, but if that t2 bass tightens up with just not JJ tubes, it would become my personal easy pick
T2 was using a Soekris DAC. Kerry couldn’t even remember what model it was and it was hidden beneath the table. And it was on the open main floor.
Grand Cayman was using the Mytek Empire ($25K?) and in a side room.
STX was also using some very high end DAC and Aurender source but on the main floor.
It’s really impossible to say for certain anything imo but the GC had the best opportunity and kind of fumbled it
Likely because not many people really run shang with t2. I also thought the t2 + sr pairup lacked control and generally just didn’t sound all that impressive with the sr, but was amazing with 009s and others
Really seems like the ball was dropped when it comes to proper sources for the headamp and t2, really for myself I’d just discard my experiences until I was able to hear it on a genuinely decent source which it seems only one of them met (show experiences tend to give me little personally as well lol). In this range with these sort of headphones I do think the dac can genuinely make or break experiences with them
Sokeris 2541. IDk what he was using as a streamer though.
Thraxx Maximinus Mk2S and Aurender N20
I guess I wasnt as disapointed with the GC as you were tbh. It wasnt what I valued but I felt it was plenty technical to compete with stx and T2.
Really? you and @sa11297 are the only two I know with shang that dont run T2. Maybe thats just a skewed perspective then.
This matches what I heard. Interesting. I wonder if it just doesnt have the control needed for shang sr at those demand levels. It also fell on its face with HE60 (quite flabby) which subjectively seems even harder to drive than shang sr.
I kinda feel like horrid sources are more common than not at shows tbh.
Oh, well disregard then lol, I guess I know a few shang owners with 3es or non t2 stuff and when I have read brief impressions from others it wasn’t on a t2 either so I just assumed, but I never really looked outside of that lol
I’d really just guess it’s because of the design, it’s literally designed to meet the needs of specifically stax cans, so that’s likely what it was optimized for and nothing really else. Don’t know enough about designs to say lol. And yes not great with the senns either. I thought it was solid with the carbon cc but no idea, I liked it most off a rsa a-10 thunderbolt or cavalli liquid lightning 2
True
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This list is making me really interested in the Weiss DAC502 lol. It seems like the 502 has the ES9038PRO, which is the same dac chip as the SMSL SU-9. How a dac with the same chip as the su-9 is beating out stuff like the holo may and amber 3? Sorry for the noob question
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