The Shit List

[M0N]

@EstrangedBaron

Thanks for bringing back Susvara despite it not necessarily belonging in that list due to it not being a great value headphone

So here’s the thing. If your looking in the ultra or high end headphone category for a top tier headphone, it actually is a decent value within that range. But if you’re not willing to go mostly all out on it, it becomes less of a good value in the lower ranges. So it’s not to say it’s a headphone that’s consistently poor value, rather it’s just one that only shows it’s value when you’re really really high up imo. A bit counter intuitive, but the more you spend the better value it becomes lol, to an extent

@EstrangedBaron

Would be interested in speaker amp picks, but you’ve done more than enough with the information you’ve already provided

That’s something I’m just hesitant to say because I think I need to just try more pairings and see how things are before I would put down official suggestions per se. I’ve got my favorites in my head, but at the same time I bet there’s better value options out there and there’s way way more to explore for speaker amps. Also getting into power amps further complicates things due to now requiring a preamp which can easily explode cost lol

I might do a speaker amp for headphones section, but it’s probably not going to be in the shortlist section

@EstrangedBaron

That and you’ve already shared a couple of speaker amp picks for the Susvaras via your ever evolving setup diagram (like the grandinote demone and the FM108).

Well those are just my personal picks lol (now it’s afm 50s and Concero 25s, but just because I’d used the pairup doesn’t mean I’d suggest them to others lol

@EstrangedBaron

Thanks again for all the work you’ve put into the shit list, this will be a great resource for many when referred to wisely. But I don’t think you should worry if someone makes a poor choice using it. It’s on the reader to keep their own system, preferences, and ear hole specs in mind lol.

Guess that’s fair lol, still just worries me anyways

@EstrangedBaron

You can’t shortcut this introspection by just looking at a tier list and getting whatever thing is highest on the list that you can afford.

Yep, although it concerns me that some think you can and do just that lol

@EstrangedBaron

Instead we gotta listen for ourselves and understand what it is we really want from our systems, then we can start looking at lists like the shit list to see what components/upgrades will help us tailor to those preferences further (all the while keeping system synergy in mind). It’s can be a lot, but when done right can be a very rewarding process.

That’s what makes the hobby fun in the end lol (well one aspect at least)

@EstrangedBaron

Sorry, I’ll stop waxing philosophical lol

Nah it’s fine lol, this thread has been a whole lot of that anyways already

@EstrangedBaron

I really appreciate what you’ve done M0N.

np

[Christof]

@EstrangedBaron

I also think @Christof has been doing a great job sharing his thoughts on using various speaker amps to drive his headphones which I’ve found very insightful.

Glad you liked the speaker amp impressions I’ve done so far. I’ve tried Susvara on the Tyrs, Firstwatt F8 and SIT-3, and also a restored Technics amp called the SE-A7 at a local meet.

That Technics amp showed me that Susvara is capable of some bass bloom and rumble that I hadn’t quite heard on the Tyrs. Since hearing that I’ve tried the Firstwatt amps and those bring back some of the bass that I heard during the meet on the technics amp. However the Firstwatt and Technics amps are behind the Tyrs in overall performance.

Here’s how the Susvara sounds on those 3 speaker amps that I own:
Tyrs: Big stage, great macrodynamics, very fast, airy and detailed presentation. Bass quantity and bloom is lacking but extension is pretty solid.
F8: Average size stage, warm and dense tonality, bass has some more bloom to it. Not as fast but a really solid pairing that combines detail and stage size with a really pleasing tonality.
SIT-3. Smaller stage size, very thick sound, has the best bass I’ve heard on Susvara but is lacking some slam and speed. Sort of tames the airy top end of the Susvara and creates a very organic sounding headphone. I just wish it kept up to the technicalities of the Tyrs.

I saw the SIT-4 was introduced at Axpona so am curious how that does with Susvara. The F8 is an interesting middle ground between the Tyrs and SIT-3 since it has a pretty big stage and an airy top end but adds some bass bloom that is missing on the Tyrs. The SIT-3 is even more different to the Tyrs then the F8 so enjoy using the SIT-3 and Tyrs most of the time.

Also even though I describe the stage size as average and small for the Firstwatt amps they are still quite big sounding compared to most headphone amps I’ve heard. So it’s not like they sound congested at all they just sound less grand then the presentation of the Tyrs.

[hifiDJ]

@M0N kind of just noticed this but i see you rec’ced the modwright ha300 for both the Sus and d8kp but didn’t put it on the shit list. I think i get why you didn’t put it on there, but i was thinking it might be confusing for some readers looking at the shortlisted options only to find there’s no description of the ha300 anywhere on the list (aside from your mysphere article). Unless I missed it…

[M0N]

Oh whoops, no that was actually a mistake lol, I thought I had it in there, I had the tryst in there, but I forgot the ha300 (likely because I ctrl’d f and saw there was already a match for the ha300 not realizing it was the cayin lol)

Updated

[M0N]

Ok, I added a few and reranked IEMs, and added a section dedicated to pairing the susvara with a speaker amp for what I thought was reasonable. But that’s it lol, not doing speaker amp pairings for other headphones, and it’s only stuff I thought might actually make sense to buy. And wrote another little blurb too. If you’re wondering why there’s so many frequent updates, it’s because I’m forcing myself to get it done, and because work is slow right now

[Salguson]

@M0N

, I added a few and reranked IEM

Did you replace tia trio with fir m5?

[M0N]

Yes, I was thinking hard about it, I’ve always liked the fir m5 over the trio in most cases, but I also really like the trio, and I didn’t want to have both on there since they fill very similar roles. The trio is still very good, but considering you can get the m5 for cheaper than a trio used and in a lot of aspects it ends up being more impressive (imo more texture, better resolving power, better bass impact and slam, more filled out midrange, better depth overall) with a similar warmer monitor signature I felt like it was fair to replace it. I will say the trio is more forgiving on source which the m5 isn’t as much, so there’s that, and I think the trio is also a bit better for getting a bit more out of lesser recordings whereas the m5 will let you have that more

I didn’t put the m5 in there initially becauseeeee, I literally forgot it existed when I was listing the iems, and I didn’t look back at the iem section. When I moved the fir vxv up from where it was, I thought “wait what about the m5, how did I miss that”

Makes sense the M5 and trio are similar given the history of fir and 64 audio

Was also going to consider putting the XE6 in there since it’s bass and space are really unique and stand out, but I just can’t given how much that thing costs and the other qualms I personally had with it

Really one of the bigger iem rank changes though was I had the faudio a lot lower than it should have been lol, I had initially put it in oh shit as a placeholder but it really should be in holy shit

Added truthear hexa since it’s nice, inoffensive, and just generally good for the money, same with the ibasso it00 which I think still holds up. Moved the Sony ex1000 down and fir vxv up. I had kiwi ears cadenza in there but soured on it recently, sure it’s only like 35 bucks but treble was getting on my nerves any time I used it (it’s overall whatever, just save up for the it00 or hexa, only made it on because it was super cheap and better than the guiderays, I’d just ignore the sub 50 buck ratrace and get something actually worth keeping)

Also semi recently tried an Audio Hekili (stupid name) which is actually really fun and unique for the price so it got added, bass focused in a non harman way, great energy and dynamics, refreshing for the bracket (although somewhat weaker in stage)

Overall the iem section was something that I kinda just put down all the initial picks in a loose ish rank and let it sit while I fine tuned the stuff I cared about more, now looking at it with a more critical light, saw some issues that needed to be addressed and things that were missing or shouldn’t have been there

[Souldriver]

I really love on the shortlist pairing breakdowns the few sentences of insight on each headphone before diving in.

[M0N]

What’s on my want to demo list:

(W) will try, higher priority
(M) may try, lower priority
(I) if I get the chance to, if it falls in my lap
(N) no clue/no info but I want to
Striked out is stuff I got to demo, + (nope) means no longer interested

Headphones:
(M) Stax X9000
(W) Yamaha YH5000SE
(M) Raal CA1A
(M) Ollo S5X
(N) I guess the new drop senn
(M) Audeze MM-100 (nope)
(W) Sony MDR-MV1
(I) Hifiman HE1000 Stealth (I thought the SE was already stealth, so confusing)

IEMs:
(W) FAudio Mezzo LE
(M) Jomo GT600
(W) Custom Art Fibae 7 & 5
(M) Symphonium Helios SE
(M) Hifiman Svanar

DACs:
(M) Ideon Absolute
(I) Allnic D10000
(W) DCS Apex stuff
(I) Sforzato DSC−010EX & PMC−010EX
(I) One of the higher end AC
(I) SW1X DAC V or X
(W) Totaldac d1-sublime
(N) Rockna Wavedream Ultra
(N) New mojo when it comes out
(M) Weiss Helios
(I) Gustard A26 & R26
(W) Bricasti M1 SII
(N) APL DSD GR
(N) LTA dacs

Digital sources & Networking:
(W) Magna Mano Ultra mk3 Farad
(W) CAD Audio Transport
(W) Innuos Statement Next-gen & Phoenix reclocker
(W) Totaldac d1-switch
(M) Network Acoustics Muon Pro + cable
(M) Ideon Absolute Stream + Absolute Time
(I) Sforzato DST−050EX
(I) JCAT XACT S1
(M) Antipodes Oladra
(M) Pi2Design Mercury V2 &/OR Pi2AES 2.0
(M) Holo Red (nope)

Power supplies:
(W) Plixir Statement BDC

DAPs & Portables:
(W) Brise Tsuranagi
(W) Lotoo Mjolnir
(W) New L&P dongles and higher end daps
(M) Hiby RS8 & RS2
(I) iBasso DX320 MAX

Amps:
(I) Zahl HM1
(M) Feliks Envy
(W) Woo WA23
(M) Decware ZMF OTL (nope)
(I) Nitsch ECP DSHA 3FN

What I’ll actually get to try, who knows, and how soon, also who knows lol. Not considering these for the sake of the list, but out of personal interest, but if they’re good enough they’ll make it on there I bet lol. Currently more interested in digital sources, either just to see what’s new in the range, or to provide an upgrade to my k50 for the totaldac, but also will be getting a sublime eventually 100% for sure now after the triunity demo

[orrman]

I think antipodes are already working on an upgrade to the Oladra.
I’d also add the LTA DACs to that list.
Have you seen any official information on the Wavedream Ultra?

There are also rumors about a new flagship Final headphones

[M0N]

@orrman

I think antipodes are already working on an upgrade to the Oladra.

That’s why I’m hesitant, and also some that have tried the oladra didn’t find it worthwhile or actually liked the sound of the K50 more, so that one is basically waiting on a new improved version or something different lol

@orrman

I’d also add the LTA DACs to that list.

Forgot about those, but def want to hear them, added

@orrman

Have you seen any official information on the Wavedream Ultra?

Nothing official

@orrman

There are also rumors about a new flagship Final headphones

I’ll wait until there’s an official announcement

[Souldriver]

@M0N

Pi2Design Mercury V2 &/OR Pi2AES 2.0

I keep wanting to buy a used one to experiment with. I have a Samsung M.2 drive that i meant to sell a while ago but basically is too cheap now to do so, but would be perfect for a Mercury.

I know you wanted to look at the Pink Faun stuff as well. Still on your radar, tried it already, other?

[M0N]

@Souldriver

I know you wanted to look at the Pink Faun stuff as well. Still on your radar, tried it already, other?

I don’t know why, but I’m not as interested as before lol. It’s weird too, I heard a taiko extreme and that’s leaps and bounds ahead of anything I’ve ever heard when it comes to a digital source, just insane, and I would go with that but don’t like how control is somewhat clamped down on it. The pink faun is something that I assume would offer more control over the device to the end user but I can’t be sure, and if I’m going to go for one of those I might as well just get an extreme and cry about the invasive design later

Both are really expensive, both are questionable in terms of who actually owns the device in the end, and both are something that I want but not sure if I really should

[Souldriver]

Interesting. Oddly the taiko’s mainboard reminded me the most of a server motherboard. Like one of those dual cpu e-atx type things. But also to be clear i am not saying it is off the shelf at all, and everything around it looks built up to the tee.

I am not even going to look at the weight of the unit but just from the pics that has to be solid and wouldnt be surprised if it pushed near 100lbs.

[dB_Cooper]

[M0N]

Pretty sure they tell you the motherboard they use on the site, not sure. I have no issues with something being off the shelf vs not, all comes down to how good it sounds and how it compares to other alternative options if it justifies the cost or not in the end. I’ll just say seeing the inside of it, there’s a lot that isn’t really off the shelf as well lol

[dB_Cooper]

I agree and even with off the shelf solutions, so many components would more than likely be swapped for higher tolerance equivalents if they’d be a source of noise or ripples.

I wonder though what level your gear has to be at to get the most out of it? I’d have to think that you’d probably be looking at the $20K plus range of DAC to even begin to see a benefit?

[Souldriver]

I guess i am decent at weight estimates

[M0N]

@dB_Cooper

I’d have to think that you’d probably be looking at the $20K plus range of DAC to even begin to see a benefit?

You can sure hear the benefit on cheaper dacs, but really I think if you’re buying one, from a value perspective you’d want to have essentially a truly top tier dac to make it worthwhile. For what price range that is, I don’t know, although I thought it was worthwhile with the horizon and triunity if that puts a ballpark range. All assuming the rest of the setup is to the appropriate level

[dB_Cooper]

I just realized the remote ownership of it is due to the fact that it’s a Windows machine… requiring Windows updates. LOL