came across an interesting podcast from Darko recently, covered quite some ground on various sub implementations and their pro’s/contra’s
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Got it, the neater cabling makes sense. I was just curious because I read an article by PS Audio’s Paul McGowan where he recommended the power amp/integrated’s speaker connections as the best option, because the speakers and sub would be getting exactly the same signal at the same time. And then I read the same in REL’s literature.
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Right. This. Once i started to hook up via high speaker level to my subs, I’ve never looked back to line level
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You know, at some point you will have to at least experiment w/ and try the High level/speaker inputs on the subs. You know, just to see what it sounds like in comparison to the RCA inputs.
I’m trying to figure out if i can run one speaker to each sub directly and not mess up the sound because that method feeds “higher” input than the normal connection… still trying to figure that one out though.
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Since I have the ability to do both, I’m going to try both. I’m going to start with RCA because it will be neater but I also don’t necessarily think that the reason people connect via high level is entirely negated when it’s the same analog source sending out signal such as the sub out on my LTA. There is a valid reason when going from a signal processing source like many HT Receivers that multichannel process where that multi channel processing could not guarantee the singal being the same in the time domain.
The other reason is that there will be some amount of power taken by the Sub, it’s not much, but it is still power that will be used to transmit that high level signal to the sub. If you’ve got mucho watts, it probably isn’t as important as if you’re sending out limited flea power watts.
One advantage to high level connection would be placement though, not being bound by long RCA signal cables or worse… wireless. Ugh.
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This would only happen with a very bad sub. Most subs are active and do not require any power from the speaker amp. The whole point of high level input is to reduce any timing issues with low level input and to receive the signal. A sub should look like a very easy load and isn’t using the speaker taps for any power, just signal information. I used to use my REL sub with tube amps and the speakers did not sound any different with or without the sub connected.
I am shocked amazed by the level of stereo imaging I’ve been unaware of that I’ve been taking for granted believing it as good enough.
So much that moving the subs from the inside to the outside of the speaker plane dramatically changes the stereo imaging of many facets of the various recordings I tested with.
I will continue to play with placement but I will say that if you’ve done your homework integrating one sub, then that’s homework well done. I found I didn’t have to touch my crossover setting at all, however the balance was all over the place. Compounded by the fact that I’m using two completely different subs. The level settings took some chasing to get right. The mass of the stage would move left or right based on which sub was dominant. Throw in the fact that running my previous sub but now only one channel clearly reduced its output so I had to actually raise one, lower the other in stages until I was satisfied.
I’ll have more observations over this weekend as the hurricane will mean a lot of listen time on Sunday and the city will be very quiet. Inclement weather is good for hi-fi listening.
So, yeah. What can I say? If you take your 2-CH seriously, dual subs.
My apologies to @M0N for resisting as long as I did.
@NickMimi you will be forever grateful to me for planting that seed. Those two REL you picked up, you will enjoy plenty.
There’s something about the harmonics that I swear that even the lower registers of the voice, both male and female became more organic. It shouldn’t make this much difference that far up the frequency range. It just shouldn’t.
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Man! Not much happening here in subwoofer land!
Outside the usual suspects, REL, Rythmic, etc….what other subwoofers do folks like with their integrated amps, either tube, hybrid, or solid state? Looking for speaker level connections over rca line input for ease of use.
Also according to Rythmic they don’t recommend their subwoofers to be used with tube amps, thought that was an interesting tidbit.
I used to have multiple tube amps, tube preamps and combinations of tubed electronics and never had an issue.
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Just out of curiosity, do y’all raise your subs off the floor at all?
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I have mine on iso gaias if that counts
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From their FAQ:
4) Tube power amplifier issue. If your power amplifier is tube-based, then speaker level input method has one additional drawback. Tube power amplifiers are known to have low damping factor (DF). Low DF means the frequency response from tube power amp is highly load dependent. If one connects to 5 different speakers, it gives you five different frequency response curves at the power amplifier output (whereas solid state power amps produces same power amp output regardless speaker impedance). Sonically bass has always been the weakness of tube power amps with bass often perceived as sloppy and under-controlled. Stereophile has been publishing deviation of FR using their pseudo speaker load when reviewing tube power amplifiers. The plots show wavy frequency response. If one uses the tube power amp output to drive subwoofer inputs, the same sloppy/ill-controlled bass from the front speakers will transfer to subwoofer and also make subwoofers sound sloppy and under-controlled. That certainly is not the best way to achieve good bass.
I thought that was interesting to put in there specifically, that was all. If you had great luck I envy your experience.
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Do you have any other suggestions besides a Rythmic?
I’ve only owned rythmik. I’ve had some crappy brands but I’m not going to count them. I’d say I’d only save up for JL
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I appreciate that, trying to avoid the crappy stuff distraction. The JL Audio options look nice though the pricing can get ridiculous fast. Especially that double decker subwoofer!
Are you talking about using a platform under the subwoofer’s footers?
JL audio Subs are awesome but if you are willing to pay THAT kind of money you can also then look to the proper REL subs…
either series S or the Reference series. You happen to have a local to you REL dealer who has sales often and even went so far as to deliver to my home to offer a better price savings in shipping fees which are more expensive than the fuel he used coming to my home. I have to find his number though…
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Mostly talking about elevating it at least 3ft or more… I’m sure isolating it helps too but I bet elevating it and isolating it would offer better results
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I never lifted mine, like a foot off the floor, though i have seen the REL stack and have also seen HT subs stacked 3, 4 or more high. Also i have experienced subs stacked at live venue events and clubs many multiples high.
My “good” subs are all sitting on some sort of platform either marble or synthetic material and i even installed upgraded subwoofer feet. yes, they do perform better, it is obvious in the house and to add to that all my “good” subs also have upgraded power cables, they seem to warrant and take well to the upgrade.
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Now that is interesting approach, how high are we talking, 1/2’ to 1’?
Down-firing, side-firing, or both?
Got my mind running through scenarios 