I think that is a very good thing to point out. I think of all the people here you always are the most conscious of how words can inflate and deflate value and perception. And yes, while it should be said more often, i hope people do realise that 98% of gear will mostly depreciate in value. There are ways to avoid the big chunks of it, but even buying used there will be drop off.
But also I do think you can give yourself and your ears a little more credit. Fool or not, you do have good taste.
We’ve touched on this before and everyone will have their own perspective on things but IMO when I buy something I’m willing to sell it for less than I paid for it because I perceive a value in having something in my house for an extended period of time and there’s a cost I’m willing to pay for that. Some people struggle with taking a loss but it you bought at a bad price and you’re trying to get that cost back, it’s just never going to happen.
I’ve sold things for more than I paid for them but I’d rather keep those in house and pass the opportunity to someone else especially if it’s something they’re going to be able to get good use out of.
That said I see the community offer a lot of guidance and counseling on pricing and it’s great but in the end people are going to value intangibles, condition, color, and just the opportunity of whether or not something is available. A great price when something doesn’t come up often for sale to begin with is just not a realistic expectation.
I’m rambling now but the though just struck me and felt it was worth commenting on it that I see a lot of guidance, counseling and help in tempering expectations here all the time and that’s part of the hobby too, especially since buying and selling used is the only way most of us get into gear or are able to stretch to that next level of gear.
Here’s a quick one between Mojo X and Wavedream Signature after a week of having both around:
Control and Grip: WDSig >= X
Impact and Slam: WDSig >= X
Treble Extension: WDSig > X
Bass Extension: WDSig >> X
Microdynamics: WDSig >= X
Macrodynamics: WDSig >> X
Stage Width: WDSig >= X
Stage Depth: WDSig >> X
Tonal Density Quantity: X >= WDSig
Tonal Density Quality: X >= WDSig
Smoothness: X > WDSig
Forwardness: WDSig <> X
Energy & Incisiveness: X >= WDSig
Forgivingness: didn’t really test
I’m probably a bit biased but the Wavedream is simply a higher tier DAC in my short time comparing. I can see why people would gravitate to both of these based on descriptions and they have some similar things going on in the sense of what they’re going for (dynamic fun presentation)
Sometimes if you buy it at a good price, the market just changes.
I paid way less for my Susvara than the current going rate.
But if I’d held onto the Chord Dave I had even though it was as low as I’d ever seen one at the time and I sold it for a small profit, I’d be losing money on it today.
ZMF’s used to hold their value used, and they no longer seem to in the same way.
You can’t rely on a market staying the same.
Difficult to obtain things don’t really have a market, they are very much about what buyers are willing to pay when one is available.
I think used ZMF headphones go for much less now versus a few years ago mainly because the supply of them has gone way up. Each headphone is unique, but there are a whole lot of these unique headphones out in the wild these days. The market is saturated at this point.
Any feedback from members here regarding these DACs?
and how do they compare with things like Yggy and Soekris 2541? How do they stack in the 3000$ below market?
I read their respective threads. I’m curious about the studio ones like the Crane, Weiss, and Berkeley.
Crane Song Solaris Quantum. 2000-2400$. Out of stock.
Weiss 204/205. 204 3495$ with integrated DDC. 205 2635$. I watched Wavetheory video review. I did not get anything from it though.
Ferrum Wandla. 2795$ Goldensound fell in love with this one.
Berkeley Alpha Series 2 (Not reference). Wavetheory reference DAC.
Can only speak to the solaris quantum and alpha s2, to really dumb things down, I’d say the crane song is on a similar level to the yggy and somewhat kinda similar sonic goals but more neutral and balanced while still having a warmer lean, the berkeley is more along the sound of the soekris but at a much higher level, higher level than yggy or crane song as well
I haven’t heard the new weiss, but going off past weiss experience it’s going to be a lot more neutral than the yggy, more neutral than the crane song, about similar neutrality perhaps a bit sweeter than the soekris, and not as neutral as the berkeley
Really what aspects would you want to compare, what sort of system would it be slotting into, and what do you want to prioritize? All of them are great picks (at least saying that for the ones I’ve personally heard), so it would really come down to everything else
Actually, I don’t have a set goal. I think my DDC and DAC are the weakest link on my chain. I got curious about those DACs performance compared to R2R. I came from BF2 > Soekris 2541. I want to try something different. I planned to ask in either the general or Utopia thread.
My current chain is Douk U2 pro > coaxial > Soekris 2541> balanced > v550 > stock cable > Utopia.
I know I need to get a better DDC. I was looking for holo red or matrix spdif 3(Upgrade power supply down the line). I plan to get the Dana reference at some point. Headphones to try in the future MM100 and HE1000SE.
I want something that is good with the Utopia, but at the same time, good as an all-around. I’m looking for a neutral fun engaging chain. My current setup sounds good, clear, and clean. I like space between instruments. Vocals are forward and take the show, without masking instruments. I could use more bass and better staging overall (Wider, deeper, something that can show the Utopia’s potential).
I think if you’re looking for more neutral fun, the crane song fits that bill nicely, as would the weiss. The berk I wouldn’t consider fun but it is very neutral lol
If you want something a bit larger and more impressive in staging, with more bass emphasis but still somewhat more neutral and fun, I’d really consider a wavelight or wavedream, think that could work well in your setup if you wanted to keep a bit of a forward lean with more of a bass and space focus. I think also a lampizator amber 3/4 would be a solid pick there too although that’s not going to be as neutral as some of the other options and will be more relaxed and warmer a bit more rounded than the rocknas.
This isn’t to say that the weiss, crane song, or berkeley aren’t capable in staging, they are just more accurate and less large and enveloping and not as pronounced in the lower end as some other options. So if you really want to lean into the more space size and grandness side of things with more bass prominence I’d check out the lampi or rockna stuff in that price range (might be a bit of a stretch to find 3k, but 3.5k would do it). The lampi and rockna would be an overall step ahead of the crane song, on par with the alpha s2, no clue on the weiss, at least general performance tier wise.
In terms of synergy, honestly the v550 is pretty versatile in terms of what dacs it works well with, so I don’t think that’d be a problem with pairing for any of the aforementioned dacs. The lampi and crane song would focus more on usb sources, whereas the berkeley, rockna, and weiss are better suited to aes sources, so if you wanted to stick with a ddc then those would be the play imo (not like the crane song and lampi aren’t good with spdif/aes sources, but I generally like them more with usb sources)
The danacable for the utopia really is a must for what you’re looking for, I’d really suggest stretching for the ref+, it’s really worth it lol
Thanks as always M0N! Your notes nailed down for me.
I’m actually curious about the Yggy. But, if the Wavelight is an upgrade from Yggy and above tier of the mentioned above (Except Berkeley alpha s2 and Lampi) think we have a winner. If not a used Yggy or a Berkely alpha 2 (If one comes on sale).
The Dana reference is a stretch already LOL! I’m getting a used one from a member.
I think it’s out of stock because they can’t source the AKM chips they need. USB source wise you’d either want to get a usb reclocker (ideon) or go streamer route (sonore)
You’d really want the S2 if possible, and newer firmware the better like their MQA firmware
I’d not expect it to be on the same level of the berkeley, but I still bet it’s good. My only references though are the 501 or the older DAC2 so it seems like it’s closer to the dac2 in performance
It’s good, and it would do what you want I think, but I’ve only heard the OG and I’d rather have some of the aforementioned options over it, but it would really have more of a bass and space width focus than others in it’s range
All great options, don’t think you could go wrong with any coming from a 2541 with the goals you are after
Ah ok lol, the ref is good but the ref+ just ends up being a better value for the sound it offers at least new, but if you can get a good price used on the regular ref that’s also nice lol
Reviving this thread.
I currently have a Berkeley Alpha DAC Series 2, and I’m thinking about picking up a Rockna Wavelight. It’s been on my endgame wishlist for a while.
Any comparisons or recommendations?
I recently upgraded my DAC2 with MQA, and it sounds fantastic, easily the best DAC I’ve owned. That said, I’ve had some issues pairing it with certain gear; personally, I find it needs to be matched with a warmer amp.
Right now, I have it paired with the Violectric V222, and it sounds great with both the Clear OG and Beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pro (MKII).
Still, the itch to try the Wavelight remains.
Any advice or opinions are welcome!
You can make the argument for owning both since they are markedly different yet at a similar level.
I think sometime this year I might try and move up to a nicer dac again, but I feel strangely undecided between a few options. I don’t know if I want to gamble and try something new at this point, but I could also be swayed if something looked interesting enough lol.
I think some things that are important to me at the moment would be something with good single ended outs, something more in the middle/balanced in sound, something that takes well to a lot of different tweaks, no tubes and no dsd focus, and something attainable under 10k used (I want to keep it there to force myself to not go overboard).
Right now, the main frontrunners to me are a berkeley alpha ref 2 mqa or alpha 3 (I don’t know what would be better between them), or a totaldac d1 unity. Right now, I feel like I’m leaning more toward the berkeley being the better value on the used market, and also potentially fitting my goals best, but I also worry that it might push things in a direction where I’d just appreciate the sound of the totaldac more. I really don’t know. I’ve been thinking about other options like maybe a bricasti instead of a berkeley or even something from ideon, maybe a playback designs or emm dac as well. Maybe the newer merason as well. I really feel somewhat lost.
I figure that for now getting a barebones dac that I can bolster with improvements to digital source later on seems like a better idea than getting something with integrated streaming or extra things I don’t really need, and would allow me to improve things further than something optimized to be more all in one. I think in the end it would likely come down to whatever is the best value used to be honest, at least out of the options I have in mind, but I still do want to see if I can nail things down so I’m stuck between less decision paralysis lol.
It’s also a bit hard to really say what my future digital source will be as well. I think my current future plans would end up either being a mutec mc3 + ref10, or a gustard u26 with a perf10, and maybe in between those an ideon USB reclocker later on + pink faun pc card, but I might really go whatever route would suit my dac best, but I know I want to work to avoid a streamer as much as possible.
I guess my really scuffed question with all of this would mostly just be asking what people think the most scalable dac would be around the 10k used mark, since splitting the eventual cost across multiple components just makes more sense for me at the moment
I spent so much time with my Mojo EVO Pro that I realize that I don’t have much experience with DACs at the level you’re looking for that you haven’t already ruled out.
There’s also the hurdle of availability which may not be as much of a hurdle for you with good contacts you may still have but still, things like a Totaldac D1 Unity are not going to be tripped over in the used market.
Sounds like you’ve already talked yourself into the Berkeley because it does tick all of your boxes. I would tell you to try and find or at least listen to an Ideon ION but you’re then limiting yourself to USB input.
There’s so many new DACs and refreshed DACs out there now! Likely one of those is a pleasant surprise?
In defense of streamers though, I’m using an old Lumin A1 that I was caught off guard as to how good it sounded on my desktop, but there I’m also content with solid mid-fi representation so there’s a time and place for everything.
…afterthought, I’ve never been able to find a pic of the interior of a Berkeley Ref but the guys at Berkeley have said to me its only difference is the chassis between their models.
I don’t have as many contacts as you would think lol, and also had to cut ties with a lot of them for privacy reasons after I sold off stuff, so pretty limited for now for things that show up either on this forum or open market, but maybe I’d get lucky lol. Yeah finding a unity is not easy, only a few show up each year and tariffs have likely made them way more pricey to bring in, so it might outprice the limit I set just because of that, but who knows, I’ll keep my eye out
I would consider it for sure, but only if I eventually got a reclocker from them as well. I’m still stuck debating if the best course of action is 1 usb out of the computer for both input and output, or splitting them off and seeing how that works, and I don’t have the right means to test that fairly right now. I’m totally fine shifting my goals to full USB as long as I can really get appreciable gains from scaling things. I have a feeling it either the ion or more likely eos would be great for what I want, I’d be curious how it stacks up against the berkeley
Yeah makes it tough lol, the market has changed more than I thought it would but there’s a lot of things lately that have forced a lot of manufacturers hands
It’s purely just a usability thing, I want to play audio from applications on my PC, and I need low latency playback for editing audio, so the audio source has to be directly from the PC and not played elsewhere, I could try and find a way to make that work over network to render on a streamer but it would just be a ton of headache and more than it would likely be worth lol
That makes sense.
You mean like one pink faun or something of the like on the PC or two in the PC?
I would be shocked if that’s the case considering how much better the ref 2 sounded over a basic series 2, if so then I’d absolutely go for a normal s3 over a ref 2 mqa. The biggest reason for me to consider the newer series is that they’ve finally given up on focusing on HDCD for their default 44.1 filter and less MQA focus now that that’s gone down the drain. I can understand why they were so stuck on HDCD considering they were one of the people who allowed it to happen, but just let it go man lol. I do know with the ref 3p there’s absolutely something different there vs the normal series 3 having waveguides and such
Right now, this is how things are setup, wanted to make a diagram like yours since it seemed fun lol. Ignore the typhon I don’t have it yet but it’s locked in as the next buy lol
Basically the interstellar right now is going to be plugged into the pc either way, for the converter for the mics. I can take spdif out of it and it acts like a usb audio source, basically a ddc. So my thought was to get another reclocking ddc and pipe audio from there to everything and only have 1 usb device connected to the PC for both input and output. Otherwise, I can instead have a separate USB device for output plugged into the PC at the same time and only use the interstellar for input. My main concern is that I wonder if I would get better quality audio with one audio device instead of the system having to balance between 2
They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. lol
I’m really happy that the Hydra worked out for you! So much so that you’re already fishing for the Typhon lol. This hobby sucks. But seriously I’d be interested a comparison from you without the ground in place now that you’ve had it to see what you think.
I think I’ve narrowed it down to a Berkeley alpha series 3, ideon eos, playback designs mpd-6 (if I can find one in my price range), or a d1 unity (if I can find one in the range). I think all of these would likely give me what I’m after sound wise and fit into my setup well but in different ways.
I’m pretty interested in the ideon because it seems like something with high scaling potential, a generally balanced signature, and pretty good value, all around seems interesting.
The berkeley seems like the highest value to me used, but I worry it might be a bit too clean for my setup and I don’t know how far it’ll go with tweaks compared to some of the others (I had mixed results with the ref 3)
I do want to give playback a shot again, there was potential in their older dacs but they just weren’t there yet, it seems like they really solved it with the newer ones and I think a newer mpd like the 6 would probably fit really well into my setup, and have good future upgradability, but I have a feeling that I won’t be able to find one for under 10k as it seems like the current gen hold their value quite well. I also did say I didn’t want something dsd focused, but this doesn’t seem like something that needs to be fed dsd to sound it’s best like APL or EMM
A totaldac would be probably hitting my personal sound preference the best, and I know it can scale well with tweaks, I just am not holding my breath at actually finding one in the range, and I’m also sort of feeling like while it would probably be the best option for me, it’s also sorta the most boring one to think about too lol.
I shouldn’t plan too far ahead since it’s going to be a few months before I consider anything, especially if I have a potential surgery coming up. But it’s now fun to think about again, I just have to pace myself lol
