Short High End DAC Comparison PT.1 & PT.2, Source Gear Progression, and General Thoughts

:+1:

Gotcha gotcha. Generally when you say you prefer precision, what sort of precision? Precision being overall technical ability like high detail/resolution, high dynamics, high speed and seperation, or moreso precision in aspects like tonality, tonal density, stage realism, timbre, etc? More of a convoluted question I know, I guess I’m just asking a bit more on what aspects you want to focus on within sound, since there’s many different ways that “precision” can be achieved depending on the person

If you do end up with a tube dac you can just use the dac inside the rotel to be safe there

Also since I forgot to mention it before, I’ve not heard your specific speakers and amp, but I’ve heard other models from the brand so I can only estimate what it might sound like and might work well. I have heard the lumin u1 and a paul pang switch though so I do know what might pair well with that

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precision in aspects like tonality, tonal density, stage realism, timbre

Thanks a lot for your time and questions. For me those DAC decision drives me nuts, as i’ve watched and read through so many reviews and i’ve just invested 23k for my current setup and wanna have DAC who fits in and dont wanna stretch my budget beyond 6k, as it seems lot of money is paid in brand and hyped models :frowning:

Abbas would provide his tubed 5 series DAC signature for 4k (RCA only, as no parts for AES).

Thx!
Gerald

Ohhh given what you want, I’d really really push for something like a totaldac d1 core (with the live power if possible), that’s excellent for being really well balanced overall, a slightly warmer more relaxed lean but not lacking any energy or directness, very well weighted in terms of balance, very organic stage overall, very dynamic, personally really like it for all the genre mentioned. I will say that if you already find your setup too relaxed then the totaldac isn’t going to be a good option, but otherwise it won’t tilt your system too far. Should really benefit from your digital source. Given vincent is in france he should be easy to order from and not too hard to get where you are. This would be my first pick, I’ve really been impressed by totaldac with basically all models I’ve heard. I think it would fit your system pretty well imo (I should note though that I currently use totaldac for my main dac so I might be a bit more positive on them than others lol)

I do think the lampizator baltic 3 would fit your system quite nicely if you didn’t mind a tubed option, while I haven’t heard the abbas if it’s like sw1x or audio note, the lampizator is going to be more forward and direct with a more fun focus rather than the sweeter and more refined take of the sw1x/audio note, I think that would be a real solid thing to look into. I would prefer the totaldac from a technical perspective, but I can see some preferring the more forgiving and fun energetic nature of the baltic 3 over the d1 core, and you can more tweak the sound to your liking with swapping tubes in that dac (if you want to, but you might want to lol)

For some of the aforementioned options, I do think a weiss is a good pick if you value something that’s a more general all rounder jack of all master of none, it’s a neutral more forward yet organic leaning dac that has good technical performance but presented in a reasonably engaging way, it would be a safe pick given your setup. Basically just solid all around, really hard to complain about anything, and loads of features and dsp to mess around with too. But that being said, considering you already have a nice streamer, and don’t plan on messing around with more complicated dsp, I don’t know if it would represent good value within your system, so it might be worthwhile looking elsewhere

Meitner would preform solidly given what you listen to and your system, although it would lean more on the relaxed side of things (moreso than the totaldac) if that would bother you, otherwise it’s a more micro focus on nuance and low level information, organicness, sweetness, microdynamics, great timbre and texture, but it’s a bit more restrained when it comes to the bigger massive swings and in some systems can lean too smooth for my tastes. Assuming this is the ma1 v2 you are talking about. They drop quite a lot used at least in the united states making them very good value, but I don’t know what they sell for outside of the us

I also saw you mention rockna, a rockna wavedream (hit up a dealer and ask for a discount to make it fit within budget) could also be a solid choice for your setup although I don’t know if I would say it pairs well with elacs given I used to use a wavedream signature with a pair of elac powered and I didn’t think they complemented each other well, but I think I’d likely think differently with a higher end pair of their passives and the right amp pairing. It’s a good dac with a neutral/natural tonality but does slightly exaggerate things a bit with a stronger focus in control, spatial recreation, and separation, basically what I said about the wavelight but a bit more refined and neutral and better technical ability overall

Side note, I know you mention Abbas as being much cheaper, something to consider is that SW1X (and Audio Note for that matter) uses their own in house components like transformers, resistors, caps and whatnot and typically elect to create more simple designs with higher quality components and that’s what drives up the costs even if the two dacs look similar in topology. Again I have no experience with Abbas, but I also wouldn’t assume that you are just getting the exact same thing for less than SW1X or Audio Note, I’d assume lower quality components were used to achieve that price point. Now if that would determine sound quality is a different conversation, but the cost of components used within the dacs are what I’d assume contribute to the cost differences

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You’ll find a ton of information here about LampizatOr if you go that direction. I do want to warn you that we DO love our Lampi here, so don’t let that sway you too much. Feel free to ask lots of questions, but try to listen for yourself if you can.

*Note: also a Lampi owner here, lol

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Still really like lampi myself as well, had a few and served me quite well. For my current system though I do think totaldac has served me better. Although the horizon is still calling to me lol

There’s really a lot of great dacs at this price point, so many good options, it will really just come down to what’s available to you, what best suits your system, and what you really want to get out of upgrading

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I honestly wasn’t expecting a large delta between the Pacific vs the Horizon, but alas…

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I just received the measurements from totalDAC D1…this is pretty bad

So now i’m really struggling, if this is a good choice and better stick with Lampizator or SWX1.

Thx
Gerald

Sure, but it’s also a question if that actually matters, the lampizator or sw1x/audio note probably measure around similarly “worse” to that. From my experience measurements are fairly independent from sound quality, I’ve had dacs that measured fantastically and sounded fantastic (mola mola tambaqui), and dacs that measured fantastically but were total letdowns (anything from topping), and same with poor measuring gear (totaldac doesn’t measure well but sounds fantastic, borderpatrol measures bad and to me sounds equally bad,) , basically only way to tell is with your own ears. I know for totaldac I think they will let you demo the unit with full refund minus shipping costs if you don’t like it, I don’t know if lampizator or sw1x would but might as well ask anyways.

Side note, I’ll say it before everyone else will in here, I’d really take anything from ASR with a large grain of salt, a very questionable source of information, but I don’t want to get into this discussion in this thread lol. As an example a sinad of 84 to asr might be terrible, but consider that a sinad of 84 is already higher than any music you will ever put through your system, so does that actually even matter in the end? The relationship of measurements and performance does exist, but absolutely not in the way that specific community paints the picture to be, higher does not equal better, just because something is good on paper does not ensure it’s quality in practice, and I could go on for awhile. I just wouldn’t trust any advice, measurements, or even general wisdom from that community if you value achieving an actually high performance system at least given my experience with them

I will agree with one thing ASR mentions, the build of the totaldac products are indeed cheap and not nice for the price. They are barely passable, if you care about the quality of build and fit and finish I wouldn’t suggest a totaldac lol, but I think the quality of the sound they provide makes up for the lackluster build

But really though, given your price point, I’d not be overly concerned with measurements and more look to other user feedback and experiences form those who have owned and heard the products and not those who only assess quality by how it looks on paper

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So I know @PaisleyUnderground had some correspondence with Totaldac and was told that you’d have to eat the shipping on the demo if you sent it back, but yeah, still seems like a solid deal to get to demo it in your own setup:

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I’d assume it would be cheaper for him given he’s in germany, same with places like lampizator

Speaking of, @gerihifi if you know of any hifi shops near you that you could visit, I would suggest you look around and see if any stores offer any interesting dacs within your price range and see if you can arrange a demo or an in home demo if possible. Getting some experience with some of the options within the range can be valuable regardless if they are things you were initially looking into, it can help you better figure out the exact sound you are after, and how other things may stack up within the range. Although I know with DACs audio stores are very hit or miss and may not have any higher end dacs to demo, they seem reasonably inconstant from what they offer compared to other sorts of items

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According to Amir, we should all buy a Topping D30 Pro and call it a day. :upside_down_face:

I agree, I would have had no problem paying that amount to demo the TotalDAC at home, if I hadn’t fallen in love with the Mojo Mystique X. I’m assuming Vincent was quoting a fair rate for shipping to the US, including insurance, and as @M0N said, it would be much cheaper to ship to Germany.

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Mojo would have been something I’d mention here too, but it’s likely going to be too expensive outside the us as well since you mention it

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I actually owned one, cute little device…

Mind if i ask how totaldac compairs to meitner in terms of liquidty and flow? Tbh that was such an incredible stand out feature of the ma3 when i heard it that i still cant ge that sytem put ofy head dispite feeling lkke i probabaly could t daily drive it

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I do think the meitner would be more liquid, that’s really just something it knocks out of the park, but the totaldac isn’t bad or lacking here either, the meitner just does that standout well

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I’d some nice dialog with Vincent, next month Todaldac D1-Core with DSD + Live Power options (€5.5k really nice offer from him) will be ordered & tested :hand_with_index_finger_and_thumb_crossed:

In the meanwhile I’d also found a Audio Note dealer closer by and he is 60+ and very “into” his Audio Note (also has AN 5 DAC ;.) gear and was very honest to me and said, he would not recommend to go for Audio Note in my setup, because than I’ve to go down the road with AN-cabling, ELAC speakers not best for it etc.

I was tempted to go right for the SW1x III SPX (€6.2k) as Slawa recommended in my setup to “start with”, but with this shitty Brexit, too much VAT - he also responded quickly to me!

Lampizator Poland I contacted to get some hands-on Lampizator Baltic 3, but never responded. So some Lampi Baltic 3 German owner gave me the German distri. Will se how it goes there.

Still my challenge I can’t find anyone really listening to those vendors - annyoing! Metronome, Aqua, Burmeister, Nagra, NAIM, Chord, LINN, Linneberg, nothing else most German Hifi shops offer.

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Damn nice :+1:, make sure to let it warm up and burn in, I remember it was pretty long and took some time for sure. Will be very curious on your thoughs

I would agree with him that audio note gear is very picky on what it’s paired with, sw1x is picky as well but not as much as AN stuff

Ah yeah makes sense

Hopefully you can get in contact

I’ve not heard metronome or linneberg, I don’t think naim would suit your system well, burmeister and nagra are probably above what you’d want to spend (although if you can demo a nagra that would definitely be worthwhile trying, like a classic dac or something), aqua is definitely worth a listen if you can, same with chord. You also mentioned previously meitner and Weiss were something some might have around you, still think those are worth a listen if possible

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Hello
Stupid question.

I don’t know the differences between Amber 3 and Amber 4.
I have looked at it and it is supposed to be even better than the Amber 3.
Has anyone had the opportunity to listen to both?

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I have not run across any posts on the Amber 4 in any forum i visit yet. Maybe there are a few out there but nobody that posts regularly anywhere seems to have one yet. No positive results on my google searches either but my “google fu” is weak at best…

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