I am slowly converging towards my analog rig. I have now finalized and ordered my turntable and tonearm - Kuzma Stabi R with a 4Point9 tonearm. I was curious about Sutherland and my dealer has those so he basically threw a TZ Vibe and a Dynavector 20X2L cartridge which go together well. I already have the cart and phono pre but no TT/arm lol yet, which is dangerous as I’m now wondering that I blew all my budget on the table and arm and should get a better phono and cart commensurate with the rest of the setup.
I have been going crazy over the last 2 weeks researching phono stages in both new and used market and I figured I’d ask here for some advice.
I will be running MC only (most likely) so that’s the first consideration for phono stage. My arm on order has RCA outs but I’m checking if I can change that to XLR but it might have to be DIN according to my dealer (I think he is wrong but he is checking). Most preamps take RCA but some like Boulder, a couple Sutherland, some ARC models are fully balanced so it would be nice to future proof myself, especially if I don’t get DIN.
Next question is SS vs tubes. I will be feeding this into my Leben (tube) and any future power/integrated I get will also be likely a tube amp. I can bypass Leben’s pre so I can also get a pre with a phono built in.
I have these on my radar
Shindo Aurieges (possibly Monbrison) - they are MM only so I’d need a SUT which is something I’m trying to avoid. Auditorium 23 SUTs are known to go well with these but a dealer I spoke to said he hasn’t been able to get them in like 6-7 months and has no idea when he will, no one has them. I’m very curious about Shindo but for some reason Japanese companies don’t usually put transformers in their phono stages, it’s the same with Leben and Luxman’s MM is much better too.
ARC Ref 3 /SE - I have less confidence in this purely because how many I see on used market, also a bit expensive.
Boulder 1008 - this is an old model and there is one on the used market.
Tavish Adagio - tube phono from a boutique manufacturer, has some nice reviews
Sutherland - I could go to little Loco or Duo for solid stage options
Zesto Andros - another tube option
Manley Chinook - another tube option, there is also Steelhead but might be an overkill for me
Regarding cartridge matching, I’m exploring some Koetsu and Dynavectors but overall it’ll likely be low impedance (<10 ohms typically, not sure about Koetsu though) MC.
Any suggestions or anyone have experience with any of these?
This is an interesting question. I don’t think we’ve talked much about phono preamps here so I am not sure what people have. I’m in the slow process of picking one to either buy or build, although not in the same budget.
Who has what and which suggestions would be interesting to read for me too.
I’ll give a total none answer, don’t buy anything that makes it hard to change the capacitance.
Unless your not the one setting it up.
Technically you only do it once, but you really need to hear the settings around the one the manufacturers spec says you should use.
Some come from the factory preset, some require you to disassemble to device to get to the jumpers. Even dip switches on the back or bottom are a pain to deal with.
As to tube vs not tube, I don’t really have an opinion, it’s not something where I’d get religious on what’s better, I think it’s probably more important how the RIAA a filter is implemented.
With more expensive units, you really want to hear them with the cartridge in question.
I’d be curious to see what you end up with. My electronics shop supervisor was never happy with my soldering and wire bending skills in school and lack of a proper space has created an aversion for diy for me but I am seeing some good resources for diy, especially with SUTs.
Yeah, I have seen many now where you have to mess with dip switches, the Sutherland I have actually has jumpers to change resistance loading that you need to open up the chassis to change. Although you do it once per cartridge so I guess it might not be too bad? But I agree, it’s a pain.
I’ve been basically refreshing my transformer basics as I am now more or less going down the SUT road.
I actually changed the title of the topic as that was not really the point.
I think I understand the reason for this (kinda?). With MC carts, things get a bit more tricky so if you’re really being picky, you probably want to pick your own transformers based on the cart you want to use.
Im going down a similar path at the moment with a Michell gyrodec, technoarm2, Hana sl and Sutherland tz vibe.
My integrated has a great mm phono so I started down the rabbit hole of suts and headamps but ultimately stuck with the tz vibe as I works work all LOMC and there’s no settings other than the internal gain settings but I’ve not had to tweak it.
I have the little loco in mind for future upgrades but I will upgrade the cartridge and arm to something in the same.privr bracket when the time comes.
Regarding suts I was very keen to go down that path however it seemed that if I went a fixed unit I was almost locking myself into a set voltage window for future cartridges and feedback from my dealer was they can take time/tweaks to remove any hum/noise when using a SUT…
I’m aware that switchable suts exist as do suts with loading circuits which would help with upgradability but until then the tz vibe is for me
Ah interesting, a fellow pursuer of the suts and LOMC with a TZ vibe to boost I shot an email to Dave Slagle earlier today and am looking at Hashimoto/Jensen/Lundahl etc. but it seems that they only sell the transformers and you need to put together your own case (except Hashimoto maybe) and that’s another tricky thing with such low voltages and ensuring low noise/hum etc. Last thing I would want after all this is noise!
What integrated are you running? I just picked up a Shindo Monbrison preamp which has a pretty good MM phono as well so I really want to use it rather than put a little Loco on it.
Riviera Levante with phono though hard to find out information about the phono, Im just making the assumption its up to spec with the rest of the integrated.
Ive been looking at the Epsilon MC10 which is ideal for the hana sl but will limit me to similar voltage/loading LOMC’s; I have the Mutech RM-Kanda Hayabusa cartridge on my mind for my next upgrade…
Yeah I’m having trouble finding specs on the phono of Monbrison as well but usually MM phonos tend to be standard so I’m assuming that would be the case…
That seems to be how suts go I guess - probably makes more sense to upgrade to Hayabusa first and then match the sut to that imho
Further to this subject, I completed my phono preamp build this week. I went with the Emerald.
A relatively straight forward build with discrete channel each with two single channel opamps, presently OPA27 although I may experiment with that later once it has settled in.
I picked this preamp for two main reasons: the near full channel separation and the simplicity. I feel that it is easy to over complicate a phono preamp and that fewer components of higher quality is a better option.
Initial impressions are good. Sound is full bodied and seems well balanced. Sounds good on speakers. The quality is good enough to show up flaws in a couple of my headphones that I generally only notice with flac digital recordings.
I shall enjoy it for a while before I consider upgrading the opamps. Excluding the chassis the total build cost came in at around 150 Euros - I saved a great deal by having my own pcbs printed. I reckon this is an absolute steal.
Coming back on to this one - not sure if the internal impedance of the hana sl is too high but the tz vibe doesnt seem to be a good match with the tonal balance out of whack (tilted heavily towards the low end and blowing out everything else).
Ive been having better success running the hana sl directly into the MM stage on the levante for the moment though still mid bassy - starting to wonder if this is a hana thing.
I was able to borrow a ypsilon MC16 SUT which at 1:16 is well and truly more than I need for the hana sl; sonically very nice albeit to much gain and amplifying surface noise. If I knew the hana was a keeper Id put my money down for a MC5 or MC10 but at this stage im more likely to try a different cartridge or two first before committing to a SUT.
I use a Apheta3 and a Little Loco mk2, and they work pretty well together. But it looks the Apheta3’s impedance is 10 ohm (which is supposedly at the upper limit of transimpedance units) and the Hana SL is 30 ohm, so that’s probably the difference…
I’m not sure if it’s cartridge set up but I feel like the hana sl has a mid-bass hump that is throwing out the balance and pushing mid-base to the point of distortion before I reach typical listening volumes.
Considering options to replace the Hana at the moment and targeting low internal impedance LOMC
L
Got my first Schiit product in years, the Skoll phono - it has a terrible grounding hum with my turntable setup lol
same cables used and simply replacing the cheap ifi phono and the hum immediately starts. I do have a grounding wire between the table and phono.
Try removing it.
Is the phono going into the same wall socket or power conditioner as the table?
If it’s a PS Audio one, ensure both are running either regenerated or not, mixing that seems to be a recipe for hum.
I’m going to guess the Ifi doesn’t have a ground connection to the power.
removing it doesn’t help.
I used a speaker wire between the grounding screw on the schiit and the smsl poweramp chassis screw (it doesn’t have a dedicated ground one) and the buzz immediately disappeared.
With the ifi grounding the table and ifi itself was enough, with the schiit it doesn’t seem like it.
Table and schiit are connected to separate plugs but same wall socket, no conditioning. Tried two different sockes but that didn’t help either.
I use a Little Loco mk2 w/ my Apheta 3 (10 ohm), and it seems to work fine without any issues. I believe transimpedance limit is 10 ohm? HanaSL = 30 ohm so might be a bit much.
I havent dug further since the last post and still running the Hana sl directly into the mm phono stage of the levante and it has plenty of gain.
I will grab a sut at some stage to check it out but don’t need much in terms of gain; just trying to sort out a bass hump around 100hz ±40hz.
A friend lent me their ypsilon mc16 which was silent in the system but too much gain; The other idea is to grab a soundsmith moving iron cart and run that directly into the Levante phono.
You could ask Schiit if they have any suggestions, in practice the only other things you can try I can think of is to lift the grounds at the power of various components, but it depends if you can easily do that.
I shot an email to Dave Slagle earlier today and am looking at Hashimoto/Jensen/Lundahl etc. but it seems that they only sell the transformers and you need to put together your own case (except Hashimoto maybe) and that’s another tricky thing with such low voltages and ensuring low noise/hum etc. Last thing I would want after all this is noise!
