Hello hello! I know this post is from a year ago, but I just wanted to say thank you for letting us know about the upgrades! I sent my v3 in for the nano crystal core choke upgrade and just got it back today. (Roughly 3-day turnaround from received to sent back.)
It still needs more time to break in and all that, but even still, I could hear a difference pretty immediately. (This is unusual for me with DACs, so it could be that it’s quite a big jump, but it could also just be that I’ve owned this DAC for a very long time and I’m very acclimated to what it sounds like.)
I’d also never looked inside my v3 so I was surprised to hear from Ben that apparently my v3 has Z chips, so that was fun to find out.
Is the Mystique V2 around bf2 or yggy performance or surpasses both?
Looking for some rich impactful SE dacs around those 2 performance wise and I can’t think of any, its for a pc setup and that one is optimized around usb only which is great.
I still have my Mystique X SE NCZ here but also acquired an Aries Cerat Helene DAC several months ago. The X SE still sounds great and, while there are impressive similarities, IMO the AC Helene moves the ball even further in a few key sonic areas (at almost twice the price). The sound through the AC Helene seems more dimensional, rounder, and sweeter, while the X SE has fuller, more impactful mid-bass and a touch more density. Both sound organic and naturally real but the AC Helene does so a bit more realistically, IMO.
I haven’t dissected the differences, but both have extremely competent power supplies (the analog PSU in the Helene’s is rectified with a GZ34 tube). Based on my time with the Mystique Y DAC, and what I have read, the AD1865 DAC chips used in the Helene (and in the Mystique Y, some of the Audio Note DACs, the Linear Tube Audio (LTA) Aero DAC, and others) is known for a bit more forward, vivid sound signature while the AD1862 chips used in the X SE, and other Mojo Audio DACs (except for the Mystique Y) are known for a richer, more musical presentation. Another difference is in the output stages where the AC Helene’s output stage includes NOS E280F tubes, while there are no tubes in the X SE. The AC Helene also uses “super clock technology” and the USB input is double reclocked, which is a feature that is user-selectable on the AES and S/PDIF inputs. The AC Helene offers some other features you can read about in the link I provide below.
Back to chips, the AD1862 is a mono DAC 20-bit chip, while the AD1865 is a stereo DAC 18-bit chip. Mojo Audio uses two of the AD1862s in the X SE while Aries Cerat uses eight of the AD1865s in its Helene. Most seem to believe the 20-bit AD1862 was the pinnacle of Analog Devices’ multi-bit DAC range, while the 18-bit AD1865 was just below it.
Benjamin is on the cusp of releasing a new Mojo Audio Mystique Z DAC based on the BB PCM58 DAC chip. I hope to have one here around the end of the month. In my audio past, I have spent some favorable listening time with CD players and DACs that used BB PCM63 chips (20-bit) and it is my understanding the PCM58 chips (18-bit) provide a similar, very musical sound. As with the AD1862 for Analog Devices, many believe the PCM63 was the pinnacle of Burr Brown’s DAC chips, with the PCM58 being similar but just a touch below (i.e., 20-bit vs. 18-bit, respectively). FWIW, Burr Brown was acquired by Texas Instruments in 2000.
Nice to have the Helene in house especially given that you’ve been walking the vintage on chip R2R road. One of the reasons I’ve stayed with the Evo Pro was due to the power supply which I believe is more impactful on the overall sound that the starting DAC chip when the chips are in the same family. One of the things I’ve most interested in the new Z is the optimized and greatly reduced signal paths on the board. I think most of the benefit of the X over the Evo came from that and the differences between the X and the Evo were down to power.
In the end Ben seems to have abandoned the Evo due to manufacturing costs as its limitation. The Z given the board redesign and the improved power is a good candidate for me if I ever decide that my DAC is the weakest link in the chain.
@mitch a very good write up there. I like how you differentiated versions as opposed to Ben’s own words of saying it’s the same but “better and more of what you love !” Kind of like a box of food when they change the recipe.
To @dB_Cooper ‘s point i think a lot of the mojo’s magic lays in the power implementation and it seems to be the point Ben stresses the most. I do think since the evo series he has been trying to streamline that and combine it with more shielding, isolation, and probably a lower bottom line for himself.
@mitch i am looking forward to what he does with the PCM chips and will be refreshing often to read your thoughts. I think the AD and PCMs are probably the best of those old R2R style chips made and i dont think i would want to live without the bottom end and heart beat thump and musically the mojo xse z nano etc and the AD1862 translates into my music. I have heard and liked BB chips before, but those were delta sigmas in DAPs so different beasts. He is about 5 years overdue on the date he was saying a PCM based mystique would debut. The newest model seems to ne more than just a chip swap. I would really like to hear the rumored summit dac he keeps teasing with the pcm63, where he said it will be multiple chassis.
The z is for the “Z” chip rating on the dac. It seems many got this for free. Nc is nano crystal.
For the mystique X i wouldnt buy anything under an X SE. The base X was ok but i think many of us who tried it agree that the SE and up versions unlocked something.
I never heard a yggy or byggy, but to my knowledge it builds off what the bifrost 2 does. The mojo is the same crowd of those but always seemed more refined and technically capable. I like the simplicity of the mojo, no filter combo burtito whatever. But i would never run it off the usb. If you do that i would say a ygg bygg may ne better with how much they put into the unison.
All levels have the thump, you lose hairs of bass quantity it as you go from fe→am→nc cores. In return you gain a good refinement across the range (not just bass). But as a whole i would go for an am core or better. The SE used to be reserved for am cores but ben changes naming a lot. I would look for a used or demo unit.
@M.J When I went to NC on my X SE, the sound wasn’t drastically different, unlike all the “night and day difference” hyperbole that Ben told me on the phone.
I agree with @Souldriver that the bass seemed to have slightly less quantity and slightly more refinement, but it’s hard to say because I didn’t have the 2 models at the same time to compare.
In hindsight, I would have been perfectly happy keeping my original X SE, but I could afford the upgrade, and don’t regret doing it. However I don’t think there’s any reason chasing an NC model unless a used one happens to be available at a decent price.
I thought the X SE was an “organic” upgrade from my previous DAC, an Yggy A2, meaning that the X SE was in the same “family” as the Yggy in terms of rich mids and rhythmic bass, but a step up in terms of what I was looking for. It’s been a long time since I heard the Yggy so I can’t give detailed comparisons.
I loved that Yggy too, and would also have been happy keeping that LOL. It was that realization that stopped me from upgrading the X SE to Ben’s newest model. I’d rather spend my time being content with my equipment and listening to music.
I know that we’re relatively big into the Mojosphere at SA, but I wasn’t really prepared to see how underrepresented they are in the big forum spaces and generally it’s a lesser known if rarely mentioned DAC elsewhere.
I think part of the difference between SA and other forums is that we really try and focus on chains rather than individual components.
It’s also refreshing to see that this forum is relatively free of simping for various brands where the membership regularly rusty trombones vendors and whatever new piece of kit that vendor happens to put out.
I love my Mojo DAC, it is not the weak link in my system and to be honest I wouldn’t even know what DAC I’d purchase in it’s place because I’d have to spend considerably more. They are as a family of DACs a great bang for the buck piece of gear, especially if you’re lucky enough to find a good example used on USAM, but yeah Ben can wax poetic on minutia when in reality they are all close enough for the differences we hear between them can also be introduced into a chain with a new power cable, or signal cable or hell, dialing in your speaker placement.
I just posted a review of the Mojo Audio Mystique Z NC in the Six DAC Comparison thread over on Audiogon (link). I also received what Benjamin calls the Mystique Z Q (with Bybee Quantum Purifiers) and will be sharing my comments on that DAC soon.
In short, as mentioned by @dB_Cooper previously in this thread, the differences I hear are incremental and not monumental but, to me, that pretty much describes the state of the entire digital audio industry. I do like the sound of both the Z NC and the Z Q and, whether due to the move to BB PCM chips, or the other improvements Benjamin has made, or both, I believe these Z-line DACs sound closer to the liquid smoothness I remember from the EVO Pro Z while also providing additional texture, dimension, and definition.
Wow, that is small world stuff.
I told Benjamin that I hope he sells a lot of the Z-line DACs because I believe that the sound on offer at around $10K or less is pretty incredible and should satisfy most audiophiles who like the R2R sound, except maybe those spending much more. I certainly haven’t heard everything but since I still own the AC Helene, I can at least bracket Benjamin’s offerings with both more and less expensive DACs and I can say that the new Z NC and Z Q are in the ballpark of what I hear from the Helene. As I told Benjamin, I would consider both Tier 1 type DACs and the rest would be decided by personal preference and personal budget. Maybe I just like the Mojo Audio house sound.
Your post was timely. I actually reached out to Ben about options for those with an EVO Pro and he had some very good still TBD list of possibilities for those of us looking at the PCM63 based Mojo offering.
My first sentence is actually not true, I reached out to Ben about getting one of his new “Brick” Illuminati power supplies, he’s got some chassis issues to work through but will be here early next year.
Yes, Benjamin is looking at an all-out statement model using the PCM63 chips. I currently have here two of his new Z DACs, one that has the nano crystal chokes, a Z NC, and the other that has both nano crystal chokes and the Bybee quantum purifiers, which he is calling the Z Q and that will be released in January. The Z-line uses PCM58P chips which, I believe, Benjamin finds close to on-par with the PCM63, just 18-bit for the PCM 58P vs. 20-bit for the PCM63. It is interesting that he moved from the Analog Devices chips to the Burr Brown chips.
Both of these DACs sound great but I still believe one issue is that, without reinventing the wheel, most of the upgrades will be incremental rather than monumental, which is sort of where the digital audio industry seems to be now. Companies keep releasing new stuff and people keep purchasing the new stuff but the value proposition depends on one’s personal taste, personal budget, and what degree of improvement must be achieved to prompt that person to make a change.
I’m just not sure what I want from my DAC since I’ve very happy with it.
I can start trying different DACs and seeing what else is out there and if what’s out there is something I prefer, but I’m finding a lack of interest in continuing to search since I can’t point to an area where I’m not happy. That’s a good thing I guess.
I’m finding Ben’s willingness to entertain something as one of as putting a Z DAC in an EVO chassis a refreshing reasons and why in some examples, it’s way better dealing with a small artisan level than a large corporate level vendor.
When I’m ready I know I have a Bybee and the NC as upgrade options and not touch the DAC portion. I don’t know if Ben would trip over a Z chip again, I have a J or N or forget which in my Evo.
I’m just no longer chomping at the bit for upgrades in general or doing an upgrade without a specific reason. But better is better, let’s see what 2026 brings.