Nobody mind me please, I’m just documenting thoughts and experiences in case someone finds anything useful in my ramblings.
Front end; Innuous PhoenixNet switch, feeding Pulse streamer.
We then used LTA MZ3 as a pre-amplifier. Speakers used were old Charney Audio Excalibur single driver w/ the old version of the Lowther DX65 tiny little 5” speaker.
I like the speakers, they are very capable, extremely resolute and the fact that the speaker is capable, (in the right room, with just the right amp, set-up well) of producing some low frequency energy has made these fun to experiment w/ the past few weeks. The much better than average resolution has been an experience in getting to know my equipment better so i’ve been playing w/ them longer and more intently than usual.
I did NOT enjoy the LTA MZ3 w/ my Yamamoto A08-S amplifier. Nope, too much gain, the volume knob was being limited in the bottom 20% of it’s range and that just didn’t work well w/ the amplifier or the speakers. I bottomed out the speakers at least 2x on some modern more powerful tracks, and once i even experienced the nasty Lowther “shout” which is much more like a “screech” IMO. I tried to listen for several hours, even experimented w/ a variety of genre’s hoping to find a saving grace somewhere, it just didn’t materialize. There was no synergy and an extreme level of detail retrieval that was just not particularly enjoyable or pleasing.
Interestingly enough, i’ve used the same pre-amp + amp combo in my smaller room, different front end, different speakers and enjoyed it VERY much for many weeks on end. Yes the range on the volume knob was limited but not as bad as with these speakers and sound quality was just completely different. Different equipment, much better synergy.
Synergy and matching individual pieces of equipment is a thing
Don’t know if the MZ3 has the variable gain function but you should check as it’s likely that it does.
Gain Level: Adjusts the volume control to allow for finer low-level
attenuation when using sensitive speakers or headphones. Gain
Level is saved for the selected input. Each input must be set
individually. 0dB is the default setting.
I just need to drop a pair of 12AU7’s in and pull the 12AT7’s to adjust the gain and soften/sweeten it a bit. The MZ3 if nothing else is versatile. I just don’t have the energy or inclination to go search for what i need and open her up. Instead i just flipped a switch in my rack and went back to using it as an amplifier and enjoying my little 1/2 watt wonder
@Camus , I had just enough energy this AM to test my own theory about the bass output of the Charney Speakers in a smaller room out today.
I dragged them upstairs to the smaller room, squeezed them best possible closest to the corner to maximize any bass gain available in the room and then dragged out the LTA MZ3 which is maybe pushing a watt, more likely a bit less into them. I hooked the MZ3 up directly to the Lampizator Baltic 3 and I’m having at it, NO subwoofer connected, just nice relaxing genres to feel the texture and quality of the low end in a quiet and smaller room.
The little MZ3 is a “trooper”, and the speakers are an absolute blast to play with in this room. I’m gonna play around for the next few weeks with this and various equipment swaps to entertain myself. I’m happy you stopped by otherwise I would not have incentivized myself to go through the effort of dragging equipment up the stairs
I could have at least pretended to help you get them upstairs!
Nick played a trick on me when he fired up the gear to listen to the Charney speakers, a few songs played and in my head I was thinking “are these really the infamous Lowther sound?” I went to the take a piss, he fiddled with something and came back to hear a completely different, more enjoyable sound. Little did I know he had not been running the Charneys, but rather the K-Horns.
He is the devil!
We got into a discussion around bass response, and as he correctly identified the Charney speakers hit low based on the design to not require adding sub woofers. However the room is expansive not only in size but also in height, this is where I had trouble hearing how low they could go without subs.
My Ultralinear+ Integrated had some issues and will be replaced by LTA within warranty. I’m considering asking them for a Z10e instead.
I use headphones only (Utopia22), with no immediate plans to buy speakers, but the electrostat ability of the Z10e would be nice in case I buy one.
How much (if at all) of a downgrade do you think this would be, especially in terms of detail/resolution? I’m very sensitive to perceived loss of detail, and love things like microdetail and texturing.
I think @M0N said here that upgrading LTAs for headphone use only might not be worth it, but it was also mentioned that headphone outputs of LTA amps sound like the power section, and the UL+ is the most detailed amp (so should have the most detailed headphone output).
So these two opinions seem contradictory, and I’m scared of losing detail by “downgrading” from the UL+ to the Z10e.
I will tell you that the HP amp in the Microzotl preamp that I used compared to the UL+ Int was a bit better. I’m not a big HP guy and the Utopia has very good synnergy with the LTA HP out, but I’ve got zero knowlege of the Z10e or what it shares between the electrostatic and regual HP output.
The reason for the Microzotl pre being better probably had a lot to do with the balanced input of the pre having the Lundahl transformer inline. But as a HP out, it was better than the UL+ Int. So not the answer that you were looking for but hopefully another point of reference for you.
The UL+Int also has balanced inputs as you know (which I use), but LTA says they are “tube-coupled” on the UL+/Z40+/Z10e instead of “transformer-coupled” like the MZPre. But if the MZPre headphone out is better even in terms of resolution than the UL+, that says a lot, as then it would be the best LTA amp when using the balanced inputs.
I wonder what the headphone power output is for the MZPre. Doesn’t seem to be on the website/manual!
It’s basically an improved MZ3, with better inputs, better power and a better HP as it takes advantage of the improved input and power supply over the MZ3 but it doesn’t have the speaker out.
For HP the Z10e may be a better component, I just don’t know but a few people here have had it so I’m sure you’ll get some feedback.
I owned the MZ3, the preamp, Z10E and Z40+ so out of luck for your UL+ comparison unfortunately. I will say that the Z10E sounds drier and brighter (still not bright but relatively) than the other three.
I think it’s best used for electrostatic headphones and then it’s up for discussion between regular HP and speakers (I’d say better with HP personally).
It needs better tubes to sound its best (true for all LTAs I owned at least).
For Utopia 22 this more neutral tuning (that I think is a tad warmer than UL+) could be a good match and I don’t think you’ll lose a lot (if at all) on details.
All this said, they are working on a new integrated that I think will be announced soon (end of September I think?) so maybe ask about any new upcoming products when you speak with them.
I owned a MZ3 before I bought my UL+ and had both for about a month before I sold the MZ3.
Better or worse are subjective. Like you I liked the detail of the UL+ so I preferred it over the MZ3 for everyday listening, although if I had the funds and desk real estate, I would have kept both, since the MZ3 has a magical sound.
I bought the MZ3 at Canjam Chicago a few years ago, after spending an hour comparing it back and forth to the Z10E. There were very few people at that CanJam, so I was able to take my time, and it wasn’t very noisy, so listening conditions were pretty good.
Unfortunately, enough time has gone by that I can’t remember why I didn’t like the Z10E as much.
Is there a way you can listen to it at a show before you decide?
It’s going to be difficult to be able to listen to it, at least till CanJam Dallas. But Nicholas@LTA maintains that the UL+ is the most refined, detailed, and tonally accurate of their amps, and that these characteristics should reflect both in the speaker and headphone outputs. He says it also has their best power supply. So, I think I’ll just get another UL+ to replace mine.
Are the preamps in the mz2 and mz3 the type of preamps that would color the sounds a bit and move the presentation like other tune pres do, or do they take a “keep the original sound” kind of approach?
In actuality im interested in the velo as a preamp that includes and incredible aml, and I figure the velo’s pre would sound similar to either the mz2 or mz3? What sound do their preamps go for?
I’ve not heard the MZ2 but the MZ3 is neutral with a bit of body, not thin or dense. They really do take on a good bit of character from the tubes used with them but generally present cleaner, micro detail but also good macro. They’re dynamic, organic and lots and lots of texture.
I agree with the above. I’ve tested the MZ3 as a preamp a bit and it sounds pretty neutral to me. You get some tubeyness in how it presents the stage but it’s not super warm or rounded or anything like that. It sounds transparent to the source but can add more stage size and texture.
I agree with both above statements. The only thing that I think I can add to the description is the holographic nature that the MZ3 presents. I think that coupled with its neutrality are what give it that life-like sound. The stage it equal part depth, width, and height, with precision imaging, IMO.
All of the above translate to its performance as a preamp.
Lastly, Binaural recordings via the MZ3 are a real treat.
I’ve said it multiple times, the MZ3 is a solid value, both as a HP amp, pre-amp and finally when i used it w/ my Charney speakers i very much enjoyed it as an integrated amplifier. It’s a solid watt, fairly neutral pre and dead silent neutral HP amp. It’s older brother the mz2 had good qualities and if it can be found for near $1k -ish, provides allot of value relative to the money spent. It’s all relative to $$ spent.
