I am looking to upgrade from my ath wp900 and 200$ schiit stack. I’m only going to be buying a single pair of headphones and I do need closed backs.
I have no budget and want the best despite diminishing return and want to know what would best suit my needs if I listen to music(popular rap), game(fps and more), and watch movies/etc. So I need a versatile headphone as I don’t want to switch headphones simply depending on what I’m doing.
I also need an amp/dac
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If you are spending this much you might as well start at the source w/ an appropriate streaming unit also. Folks will steer you in the proper direction soon, we will happily help you spend your money here. Welcome 
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Hi and welcome to the forums.
I think there is a lot to unpack here. I would ask a few questions.
- What are you using the headphones for? Is it at home needing isolation or is portability for a commute a concern?
- What are your personal tastes? Not just genre but do you value detail over soundstage, brightness over warmth, etc. It might help by telling us what you like about your current setup, or what you dont like about.
- Have you had any experience with other headphones, amps, dacs, etc. What did, and didnt you like about them.
- I know you said no budget but is there a range you would like to end up in? If you just say best of the best we can certainly recommend a $30k+ chain for you, but its not realistic.
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At home need not necessarily isolation but do not want leakage. I value detail and soundstage for gaming. That is where the balance comes in. I don’t know what brightness and warmth. I don’t know what i don’t like as im not an audiophile who understands these. My experience is with ath wp900 and fostex purple hearts and thx 00. I couldn’t compare them as i only got new ones after they all break. Fostex seem to have terrible quality. I have only used the same dac/amp. Budget is of no issue because i just don’t care. 30k plus is a lot but at that point its not any better. No mainstream closed back/amp/dac costs that much for consumer purpose at least in my knowledge. I am willing to spend around 10k.
Ill say that the soundstage of my ath wp900 seems the best and it seems to have more noticable details yet lacking some bass. Vocals seem to come through more though. I would prefer more detail plus a little more bass or atleast eq-able bass with a better soundstage for a new headphone. The reason I mention the usecase and genre is because I don’t know what specific audio terms like brightness/warmth/etc. make a headphone good for my usecase
Streaming unit?
Source? What is your source? Where does your music come from or reside? Are you using streaming services, Roon, Quboz, Tidal? Is your front end digital high end recordings stored on a computer somewhere? Do you use a portable DAP of some kind? Is your music on a portable player or phone?
Is headphone weight something you are concerned about? For some like myself I dont care much. But fir others it can make a headphone unbearable.
As a gamer I gamed with shitty headsets for a while so i can wear pretty much anything
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Spotify and quboz on my pc
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Your going to have to narrow things down a bit.
Closed back headphones you don’t have a ton of options at the TOTL level.
Focal Stella, ZMF Verite Closed, Audio Technica AKWT, Kennerton Rognir, Hifiman R10, DCA Stealth, which one you pick will depend on your preferences.
And which Amp/DAC you pick will depend on which headphone you prefer.
FWIW you can easily spend 50K on a streamer, and 3x that on a DAC if you want to, the top end of Headphone amps is in the 25K range, but start looking at speaker amps, and there really is no limit.
The question becomes what makes sense.
TBH trying to get a TOTL system by blind buying is a recipe for disappointment.
Unless you’re somewhere you can audition options, You’d be better off wasting some money in the mid range and deciding what you like. A lot of us got our experience going through midrange options and later higher end ones, buying used, so we don’t take a bath on every purchase.
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10000%
It really is a recipe for dissapointment. I mean consider this, most of us buy gear with more reasonable expectations than yours and still face massive dissapointment.
Even your guidelines such as diminishing returns can be iffy, because it really depends on what you prioritize. For me for example I kind of quit after a certain place and what was diminishing for me wasn’t the performance but how much I personally am comfortable with spending in audio. Also if you start of with the mindset of getting the most expensive thing to not have to look for the next best thing it will lead to a mental state that frankly won’t be happy with anything.
BTW if you have the money for it, there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to spend it! Just trying to make sure we have some things cleared out before you make a mistake and blame everyone on this forum lol.
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I think both @Polygonhell and @Littledrummerboy are being a bit too negative/pessimistic, but I’d agree to not dive in head first without a game plan and some experience with things a bit lower end than the top of the top. IMO this hobby is more satisfying and more rewarding when you take things a bit more slowly and don’t jump too far ahead for the sake of jumping ahead. In regards to diminishing returns, that’s really more dependent on the person, I’d personally argue diminishing returns don’t really exist, but I’d say instead it’s more of finding a reasonable stopping point which is something that is different for everyone.
In your case, given your gear and what you’ve heard, personally I’d shoot for that 2-3k range used for the whole setup (def under 5k used at most), and then move up from there when you have more experience in that range (if you aren’t satisfied already).
I don’t really think there’s a good reason to continue to try other more midrange cans, I’d start looking at things like the ath awas (since you already like the wp900 the awas is a good more direct upgrade and will give you more detail and a more deep and accurate stage, although it’s not going to be a lot wider and low end wise it is better quality for sure but I don’t know if it would give you that much more quantity), or a kennerton gh50 (it’s going to def have more low end with a warmer tilt, a fairly sizable stage for a closed back, and pretty great resolution, unique presentation could be hit or miss though), and I think a zmf eikon would be real solid too (also on the larger and more spacious size for a closed back, reasonably well resolving, great bass slam and impact while being controlled, although it’s not the most balanced/neutral sounding tuning). I would mention something like a fostex th900 pearl white or emerald as I think that’s a solid option in a similar price range, although the build really isn’t any better than the x00 and it’s more semi closed rather than fully closed
There’s other good options too, all depends on what you really want. In terms of source gear, that’s really going to depend on what you decide on to make it pair well. You can go higher into the headphones mentioned by @Polygonhell, although I’d personally be a bit less comfortable spending that myself without knowing what general sound I was after.
I do think there is a point where you will likely just need to jump in and try something to some extent, I just wouldn’t do that in the highest end, I’d test the waters first lol
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Jose, New nickname Negative Nancy
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Everything that’s already been said… not much for me to add other than this.
The hobby is all about experience as @M0N said. The more experience the more you’ll know which direction you want to go in and the more value you’ll get for your spent dollar.
Getting back to my contribution, if you buy things that are mid tier and quality, you get the benefit of hands on learning about what you like and you can also easily resell things to fund your next jump.
Eventually landing in a place that suits you; not a reviewer, not a friend online that gave you advice and certainly not someone looking to make a buck peddling the next hype piece of hardware.
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Most of us have realistic budgets hence why alot of the whole, maybe don’t do this until you blah blah blah. I think spending crazy money is totally OK if you have the money. My point is more on the side of spending money will not make your problem go away here. If you are unsatisfied with it ur cool gaming headset or even the audio technica that you have maybe focus on a specific target. And the target of diminishing returns is not something I would out all my eggs on a basket for lol.
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I’ll agree with this, a lot of great options at that price point, I’m certainly not advocating you try lots of options at the entry level,.
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You mean you don’t think he should buy 71 sets different IEMs? Lol
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I’ve heard the verite has similar base to eikon but has a bigger stage too? Is their drawbacks to that to why you recommended the eikon or is the verite just as good in your opinion, if you tried them that is.
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I’m honestly surprised he mentioned the Eikon too. I know he considers it better bang for buck but budget dosent seem to be the issue here
I’d personally disagree on the bass front, I’d personally say the eikon has more impactful and slammy bass where the verite bass is more tight and cleaner and more technical, the eikon is also a bit more warm and rich in comparison to the verite. Stage wise it’s similar width but verite has much better depth and placement accuracy.
Reason why I suggested the eikon is because you can find them for like 1k used, where verite are somewhat overpriced in the used market more basically going close to retail (at least they were in the past), and it wouldn’t have fit in the budget I set without skimping on source gear. If you do have the extra budget for a verite closed, it’s absolutely a better headphone imo and generally a better all rounder, but it’s also more expensive and more demanding of source gear (in comparison to the eikon at least). Although honestly zmf are safe bets given they are pretty inoffensive sounding, reasonably source gear forgiving, and easy to resell if you don’t like them, so I don’t think there’s much risk in going right to the vc if you can swing it. That might really be the play here
Source gear wise, if you did go for a verite closed, would you be ok with going tube or would solid state be more preferable to you?
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