Aren’t streamers Bluetooth? I don’t want any wireless stuff. Can you recommend me some basic models I can get shipped ASAP? If I can just load files onto it, as an isolated player, that’s fine, too.
Some streamers have bluetooth as an option, but that’s not the primary use case. Generally, they will connect to your local network via an ethernet port and allow you to use internal memory, connect external drives for local playback, or stream from remote storage from NAS through UPnP or similar protocol. Many also allow you to integrate streaming sources like Spotify, Tidal, Qobuz either directly or through a service like Roon.
There are several entry options, such as Bluesound Node 2i, Pi2AES, iFi Zen Stream, Allo DigiOne, etc. And things get crazy with stuff like Antipodes K50, Aurender W20SE, and the like.
Most can be controlled via an app on your favorite device.
All that said…I’d first check out how things sound using other gain levels and in pre-amp mode, controlling volume from the Burson and maxing out the volume in Windows while also using exclusive mode if possible (locks the output to your DAC/DDC to one app such as foobar). You may find that makes a big enough difference to postpone investing in a streamer if so desired.
It’s still not going to fundamentally change a headphone to go from hating it to loving it, but it may address some of the issues you’re having with the AWAS enough to bring some of those issues into tolerance levels.
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Out of curiosity, have you tried any lossless versions of these songs? Lossy can have that harshness and brightness on higher end systems, I wonder if lossless versions would do anything for you
I would absolutely not do this either, I would max both (or at least max windows and have winamp be higher) and control volume with your soloist. This is a lot of bit reduction here, and can definitely contribute to the feeling of overall flatness and lifelessness, or lack of info
I would try having digital volume high and use the soloist volume control, I’d also try running in exclusive mode too
You could get something without breaking the bank, if you wanted basically a mini PC to pull files off a network share or play them locally with a drive attached, you could get something like a pi2aes or allo usbridge signature player, both of which are controlled over the local network interface wise. You already have a ddc, but you could also try getting a higher end ddc like a singxer su2 or matrix xspdif 2 perhaps and run exclusive mode on a PC, you have options
I would just generally advise for most of the things you get to spend at least a week with them, since then you can properly acclimate, get past any burn in/warm up time, try more parings to verify synergy, and get a deeper understanding of things rather than deciding in the first day or 2 imo
From all that’s been described in this thread, that kinda sounds like a surefire option for you, assuming a proper energizer to do them justice (since they can be pretty lacking on some of the more entry level amps from my experience, they are not as forgiving as the lambda series stax)
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Testing Continued - Part II (main system changes, w/same 3 MP3 songs)
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Default AWAS System (PC/Win7, Winamp DirectSound Output > Douk coax > Gungnir > 3XP, low gain) + stock pads:
A. [25% PC vol + 37% Winamp, non-exclusive + PAM]
vs
B. [100% PC + 100% Winamp, non-exclusive + no PAM, 45-50% vol]
- A provides the same brightness and harsh sibilance/emphases as experienced previously. B seems to have less ‘glare’/shine in the sibilant areas, and less uncomfortable gain; a decent bit relaxed/calmed.
B. [100% PC + 100% Winamp, non-exclusive + no PAM, 45-50% vol]
vs
C. [Pixel 5a to Gungnir + PAM]
- C offers less general detail/fidelity, thus sounding somewhat smoother, and a little thinner, but still retaining full brightness & sibilance fatigue.
C. [Pixel 5a to Gungnir + PAM]
vs
D. [Pixel 5a 100% vol, 3.5mm direct to AWAS + no PAM, % vol]
- D is surprisingly good sounding, but is the most bright & harsh result so far, and least bassy. Minor differences, overall.
========
Testing - Part III (song & player mode changes; same A/B/C systems as above):
A. (MP3 320) vs (FLAC)…
- Extremely similar results, if not identicle. The FLAC treble maybe seems slightly more open/airy, if anything.
B. (MP3 320) vs (FLAC)…
- Like previous B results, there’s a little more breathable/effortless, calmed treble VS A. But I hear no difference in the song formats.
A+exclusive mode [Winamp, YASAPI]. (MP3 320) vs (FLAC)…
- Can’t say I hear any differences from non-exclusive or song formats.
B+exclusive mode [Winamp, YASAPI]. (MP3 320) vs (FLAC)…
- Maybe slightly crisper detail with FLAC. Maybe…
A+exclusive mode [Fubarr, -9dB]. (MP3 320) vs (FLAC)…
- MP3 sounds slightly smoother/calmer. No format differences detected.
B+exclusive mode [Fubarr, ]. (MP3 320) vs (FLAC)…
- Slightly more relaxed and silky sounding with MP3(and FLAC). No difference between formats detected.
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Testing - Part IIII (3XP gain changes)
A.
B.
========
Testing - Part IIVII (pads)
AWAS vs AWKT…
So from these tests it seems that full digital volume + no eq generally helps with the brightness and hardness if I’m reading it correctly? Wouldn’t be surprised with that result
Just to clarify, you didn’t convert the mp3 to flac did you right? You are comparing flac direct from a CD or lossless site/service to mp3?
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My thoughts exactly. This testing trial had the most surprising results to me.
Small reduction of brightness with full digital vol, yeah.
I downloaded separate FLAC versions, AFAIK. MP3’s also downloaded separately from somewhere, probably not Amazon, since they only do 256kbps, I believe.
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So I’m thinking of buying a basic Win10 PC, as the next system to test.
-
Would the effect of the PSU basically be negligible on the USB/ethernet signal coming out…? I assume a full ATX case would have much less PSU interference than a compact case, but no idea, in actuality. I’ve never heard of an isolated/insulated PC PSU, or separate/externle PC PSUs, for cleaner audio. The audio needs to be created in an isolated environment, somehow. . . Perhaps this is where a Pi machine comes into play, with a much smaller, and external, PSU powering it. I suppose a Win10 machine and Pi machine would be separate sistems, so I could still go ahead and get both to further test.
-
Would electrical interferce be eliminated with an “open test bench” style PC build…? Then I could put metal plating around the PSU to shield it.
-
On top of that, I suppose a BATTERY powered Pi/PC would be further isolated.
= …a laptop? And even further, an Apple/Pi/Linux laptop? -
Does Apple (USB?) still have better sound than Windows USB Audio Class 2? Or does Class 2 make it even, or better?
Do some reading in the source gear thread and then look at some of the threads in streamers to give you a better idea of the general thought process on front end upgrades.
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There’s a lot of basic things that can be done to help a PC generate less noise. Neat best practice wiring, using SSD drives instead of mechanical drives, not using fans (passive cooling) and a GOOD quality power supply. Seasonic is known for making good low ripple power supplies. In the OS and Bios you can also turn off or disable hardware you’re not using, com ports, hardware, BT and the likes.
Then there’s stuff like this. https://forum.sonusapparatus.com/t/sotm-thread-sms-200ultra-neo-tx-usbultra-snh-10g-tx-usbhub/1103/2?u=db_cooper
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Well, that tX-USBhubEX certainly looks worth trying! Fascinating…and dead simple. How do you think my iFi iPower2 would do on it? Or I could try the iPowerX, or iPower Elite.
I can’t tell what voltage it wants. “Automatic external power selection. Input voltage : +6.5V ~ +9Vdc” = 6.5V? So I would want a 9V PSU, right?
Also, do you think NOT having a reclocker included would matter much, going into Gungnir?
I’m feeding it 7V.
It depends on how it does the power regulation, if it’s a switching unit, it won’t matter anything with 6.5 to 9v at 2A would work, and you likely wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.
If it’s a none switching regulator, then you want to be nearer the bottom end (7V is probably the best option), the only way it’ll have to shed the excess voltage is through heat, and it might get very hot. Though 9V is in spec, you shouldn’t really worry about it too much.
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It does have a switching regulator and it’s pretty cool running. Unlike the EtherRegen! lol
Which do you think would have the best results, going directly into Gungnir(has reclocking IIRC)?
- tX-USBhubEX + iPower X
- Matrix X-SPDIF 2 + iPower X (only compatible with Win10+?)
- Pi 4 + Pi2AES Lite + iPower X
Honestly they’re all different things. The Pi2AES Lite is a streamer, the Matrix X is a reclocker and the tX-USBhub is a USB purifier. So they’re all doing overlapping to a degree but their primary purpose is different.
What’s your budget, what are you priorities and what do you want to achieve first if budget is something that you have to consider as a short term/ long term implementation towards your end goal.
I’ve found happiness with all of the above but for my desktop in my PC given all of the things I’ve done, I went with the SOtM hub as well as a reclocker like the Matrix X. I’m using an L.K.S. USB-100 but it’s the same type of thing as the Matrix X.
Power is very important to these things though, I’ve been genuinely surprised as to how much scaling they do with a very high end power supply.
Granted sticking a $2k dollar power supply on these components is nuts (Mojo Illuminati) but they do scale with continued power improvements.
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Assuming there is a guaranteed, substantial improvement with AWAS-level phones, at least, I would be happy spending something like $500 on a USB purifier, $500 on reclocker(assuming this is the best thing to send the signal to next), and not more than $300 for each PSU(there’s no iPower Elite in 9V).
If it’s worth upgrading from the tx-USBhub to USBultra(no external master clock needed?), as an all-in-one, plus additional PSU, I’m down for that.
Are you getting improved results even when using Windows 10/USB Audio Class 2?
All very doable especially in the used market.
That’s another option. I’ve had the benefit of a lot of trial an error and bought and sold a lot of components along the way. There’s no best, just a best for your specific situation as someone else may benefit more from a slightly different implementation of the same realm type of a solution.
Read through the SOtM hub link I shared. Yes, very much so.
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Continued Testing Notes/Ideas…
UNCOMPRESSED:
[WAV played in Winamp/Fubarr]
vs
[CD player]
SOURCE REPLICATION:
- Call them, and replicate the source used in the best hifi store system I’ve heard (=some kind of CD/SACD player, played off a CD of MP3’s/OGG’s I burned in WinAmp ~10 years ago)
I am pretty certain this is it, right here: Speaker Shop - Matterport 3D Showcase
May have been a Marantz CD6007, actually, right into the McIntosh
- Compare results to WAV PC sound, pre & post USB regenerator upgrade.
Small update - I heard NO differences on Windows 10 with FLAC; exclusive mode, non-exclusive, low gain, medium gain, with DDC, without DDC. AWAS sounds just as bright everywhere, so I think AWAS is the problem here, and it’s time to get rid of them. I don’t think Audio-Technica has reached TOTL level yet, with any of their headphones. L5000…? I highly doubt it, even then.