General Source Gear Help/Discussion Thread

Yes, the Astell&Kern doesn’t look bad, but it could be a bit peaked in the treble range.
That would not be my cup of tea.

I have also seen the Hiby R6.
Not all that bad either, but not much information on what it looks like, whether it’s an open operating system or not.
That you would have access to the Playstore.
Reminds me of the Hidisz Ap80ProX that I recently had and went back to in terms of function and found it a bit cumbersome.

Fortunately there is no hurry to take the time to look for one or the other.
R5 is not available at the moment, seems to be coming out after an update or the chip crisis sends its regards.

@M0N any chance i could bug you for a rough comparison of berkely alpha ref 2 and wavedream sig? Just a like “main strengths” of each one? Ive got a a very good offer on the wave dream but was initialy leaning ref 2. I camt figure out demos for either/or before i buy unfortunately so i need to kinda gutcheck/gamble a bit on this one tbh

So here is the thing, I’d actually prefer the rockna IF you don’t invest a fair bit more into your digital source, but assuming you bulk up your digital source to make it a more fair comparison:

Macrodetail/Surface Level Detail : Berk > Rockna
Microdetail/Low Level Detail : Berk > Rockna
Speed : Berk > Rockna
Separation : Rockna > Berk
Control and Grip : Berk > Rockna
Impact and Slam : Rockna > Berk
Midrange Texture : Rockna > Berk
Bass Texture : Rockna > Berk
Treble Extension : Berk > Rockna
Bass Extension : Berk >= Rockna
Microdynamics : Berk >= Rockna
Macrodynamics : Berk > Rockna
Background Blackness : Rockna > Berk
Stage Width : Rockna > Berk
Stage Depth : Bark >= Rockna
Stage Verticality : Rockna > Berk
Stage Boundary : Berk > Rockna
Placement Accuracy : Berk > Rockna
Presentation Organicness : Rockna > Berk
Presentation Openness : Berk > Rockna
Timbre : Rockna > Berk
Tonality Organicness : Rockna > Berk
Tonal Density Quantity : Rockna > Berk
Tonal Density Quality : Berk > Rockna
Smoothness : Rockna > Berk
Softness/Roundness : Rockna > Berk
Liquidity : Berk > Rockna
Coherency : Berk > Rockna
Forwardness : Berk > Rockna
Energy & Incisiveness : Berk > Rockna
Forgivingness : Rockna > Berk
Overall Treble : Berk > Rockna
Overall Midrange : Rockna >= Berk
Overall Bass : Berk = Rockna
Overall Subbass : See above

Might change these around, but really though the Berk excels at recreating the time domain with so much accuracy and precision that low level control is really nuts. It doesn’t have the most impressive stage, nor is the most immediately organic sounding in aspects like it’s tonality and presentation, nor is it forgiving of lesser music or source gear, and it’s dryer more no nonsense approach might not be what some are looking for, but man the amount of control and resolution is has is truly satisfying imo. I do think the rockna is spatially superior, generally more liquid, less specialized, and more forgiving, but I think the berkeley’s technical ability just pushes it over the edge for me personally. I totally see the value of the wavedream sig but really when i had both in the house I really used the reference 2 more of the time.

Then again though, I’m considering the digital source to be something at least like alpha usb, really more d1-digital-mk2 even better with k50 level, if you just did this through something like an alpha usb or something it would be a closer overall comparison and it berkeley would lose it’s technical lead imo. I should clarify here, both dacs are amazing and neither are really things easily picked apart, it will really come down to preference and synergy. Along with the Berk’s digital pickiness it’s also better balanced, where if you wanted SE performance a se wavedream sig would suit that better (although rca isn’t all that far off on the berk to where it could still be reasonable if synergy is right). And amp wise the berk is pickier and doesn’t pair as well as the wavedream does with a wider range of amps

If you are looking to pair with something like your aic 10, honestly I could go either way, although it will really come down to how much you are willing to invest in your digital source, and also what way you would want to lean that amp

I do know people who prefer the rockna to the berkeley for sure, but it all depends on your priorities, I personally liked the berk more

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You are a blessing and a half. I wasnt expecting more than like 3 lines. this break down is massively helpful.

So i have to avoid any kind of network connection and a k50 is out of buget anyways but a totaldac d1 digital is somethong i was already considering anyways (they seem to go for liek 1/4 what a k50 does from what I can tell) so its already on the table (I was planning on budgeting 3k or so for a better digital front end, higher than that and I would need to wait a 2-3 months though)

My main plan is to use this dac with the AIC so bal vs SE shouldnt be an issue (Ill have to see what enegizers tends to use but my understanding is a lot of them are internaly SE also). TBH your breakdown has me about as torn as I was previously. I’d love to be able to hear the last set of tubes I have comming in for the AIC before I make the decision if they dryer presenattion of the berkely will be alright but not sure when those are even expected to arrive tbh. Given the price I was given on the rockna I think I may just try and go for it and try the berk later. TBH I am kinda feeling like it wouldnt be super hard to push the AIC too dry given my preference for warmth but your breakdown realy makes me feel like I would enjoy the berk a bit more overall. Would you say the berk is dryer than a weiss? I was planning on demoing it with dave and weiss next weekend as is so if I could leverage that to get a better idea before I jump I may do so.

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It’s actually easier to just do this I realized, and I make sure to not miss anything lol. Although I was only able to do this since I owned both of these dacs side by side, I wouldn’t be as confident doing this with things I’ve only briefly demoed

Then I’d look for something like the totaldac reclocker or a mc3+ usb with a nice clock, that would fit nicely in that price point

Does yours have balanced in? I saw that was on the new models, the one I had was only single ended in (the amp is internally se, not sure if those are transformer bal to se internally or if the bal inputs simply drop a pin)

Rockna is generally a safer bet for most, likely easier to resell too I’d assume. The berk stuff isn’t as hyped but it does have it’s staying power and isn’t super difficult to resell later pm. It’s really hard to pick if you don’t have a concrete thing you want to prioritize nor have heard many dacs at this level

When I used it on my aic, I thought the berk turned the combo reasonably neutral with still a bit warmer and richer leaning, but the wavedream sorta kept the signature of the aic 10 more keeping that warmth and smoothness. Both good pairings, didn’t think either went too far in one direction. But I think if you are feeling like you really don’t want it potentially cleaner than you have now the wavedream is a safer bet, although actually what dac are you running right now? If you are running the yggy, the rockna is going to be a closer upgrade to the yggy than the berkeley is, so that might be a deciding factor

A bit

Good idea

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Sounds good. you also reqed the gaia to me in the past. Would that be a similar level with a better clock?

yah, mine has bal and se inputs. Its not just dropping a pin from talking to them but they wotn say whats actualy going on. Either way they claim bal and SE inputs are identical on it sonicaly so :woman_shrugging:

This is certainly a thought in my brain. Basicaly buy the rockna to get some more experience since it should be hard to move at the price I was offered. TBH I feel like I have a better idea of what to expect out of the rockna sound wise than I do the berkely as well.

Im currently using spring 3 and yggy. Both combos have problems with leading edge transients tbh. Its clear sping 3 is the better dac over all though and tbh while AIC highlights the differences it also kinda makes me not care about the deficiencies of those two so far. I will be quite currious to try it on dave and weiss to see what something thats a fair bit faster sounds like on aic

interesting. I thonk with stock tube that wouldnt be an issue but I just dont know if the G73R will remove enough body that it may be an issue for me :confused:

So that actually didn’t pair all that well with the Berkeley so I might not suggest it in this case

Gotcha

True

Gotcha. I thought both dacs ended up being a fair miss on the aic, but mine also didn’t have balanced in, so that was really the main problem

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@M0N Out of curiosity, how much of a step up would going from my amber 3 to a TotalDAC D1-Core be? I’ve been weighing my options for where I should move up from where I’m at. I know that a new amp is my first order of business to better drive my susvaras, I am just wondering where I should go with my DAC once I step up with my amp (which is a toss-up at the moment between Oor+hypsos, CFA3, and maybe the Enleum Amp-23R if I can find a good price used)

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Big enough to justify doing it, but it will depend on the amp you have/go with

Figure out the amp first imo, and then go from there

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My man is on a thread making mission right now

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Where exactly does the nagra classic fall in this scale? I dont think its what I’m going to go with but I have a demo of one set up so it would be nice to use as a reference point

I would wait on that question until you hear it imo, and then see how it stacks up

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Fair. Ill see how it stacks up against the weiss at least. My demos of the others have all but dissolved unfortunately though, so will take a bit more guess work there.

Moving this to hear since its a better place to discuss

His other dacs were more reasonable than I expected

Hi. All of them are incredible. At this level, it’s about what you like to hear subjectively as opposed to quality.

Dave and Scaler (sold). A bit too cold for me at times. Outrageously good DAC.

TT2/MScaler. Keeper in my office with Enleum and small speakers. Better balance of detail and lifelike sound.

Lumin P1. Big lush sound. Keeper in my family room w Luxman 509X and Fyne F1-8. Lots of fun. Great features. Versatile.

I’m now on the fence between the Tambaqui and Weiss 501 4channel for my listening room. Truly conflicted. Tambaqui sounds better to me. Very detailed but also easy and lifelike.

Weiss 501. Similar with more features, sound adjustments and a more versatile streamer. A bit colder than Tambaqui but that can be addressed with EQ and filters.

The latter two are my favorites but I can’t keep both.

I do find it suprising he found the weiss colder than the tabmaqui. I may have to consider it more heavily if thats the case

I rarely solicit purchase advice, so though I am new on this board - it is not my nature to do this much, and I’ll try to engage more beyond this. Just happens to be timely and this community seems like they can help and will give the hard truths.

Seeking some sage wisdom and create a little discussion about my SEEKING TO UPDATE BUDGET LOWLIFE 2CH setup.

My front room is a space that will always be dedicated to 2ch setup. I am pretty budget and simplicity minded, this situation and rec will definitely be “slumming it”, but use your imagination. A space that is about 15x13. I’ve fallen into the concept of using ultra-simple separates. How simple right now? I have a Schiit Sys for a preamp that accepts a U-Turn Orbit turntable and a Schiit Modius DAC (recently replacing a Modi 3 that was in place previously). Into the Schiit I run an android phone through a Douk U2 Pro (coax), and a CD player (optical). That feeds out to a Sonace 260x3. I previously had three pairs of speakers I would switch between for fast comparison testing, very handy for that! I added a pair of JBL SUB 550P awhile back. I currently am using some Boston Acoustics VR30. I have some other older speakers that need some love, PhaseTech PC800HO, Celestion SL600 - those are on the better end of my giant trove of speakers I have for no good reason. There is also a Darkvoice 336SE in this setup which runs mostly HD600 and DT880-600

As mentioned, I’ve fallen into enjoying the concept of separates. I obviously like Schiit products. (Upstairs I use a Bifrost 2 and an Asgard 3 at a desk setup with a pair of Acoustic Research Holographic Imaging M2 run by an Integra ADM 2.1 and a Crown XLS1000 spitting into a sealed Elemental Designs 13Ov.2 in about 2sq ft sealed enclosure.) Had settled into updating the Schiit Sys (lol) for a Schiit Freya S. People seem to be happy with this unit and feel it represents an upgrade over their Saga models. A remote for volume has appeal for me, that’s the only thing that the simplicity of the current system lacks for me in functionality. It also provides a true balanced topology. Since I now have a balanced DAC in there, I thought “what the hell” even though the cable runs and complexity of the system is fairly low and its aspirations are not very high.

The ol power amp could definitely be more “hifi” than the ol’ Sonace (a champ, btw). If I were to be forced into a new speaker purchase today, Maggies intrigue me a lot - and Schiit’s Vidar seems to be an amp for the price that is known to run them well. Probably would run SL600 well too, I’d think. Unfortunately the Vidar only runs on XLR in monoblock, and I don’t think I need or want to pay for two Vidars. Aegir seems to have some less flexibility due to power and synergy limitations though it seems like a nice amp, again two of them is not something I’m dying to pay for. These amps are also a little less user friendly - not sure if leaving a Vidar on all the time is smart, rear power is cumbersome but I’ll live with it. I admire the Schiit amp simplicity, but they are - simple. SO THEN, what budget power amp solution might rival the Vidar AND run balanced? For $699 a pair of Outlaw Audio 2220 seems like it answers a lot of my questions. I know an argument can be made for an integrated amp in place of this.

Happy with the subs and the speakers will be an ongoing thing, going to do small room improvements. Going to update the Ortofon cart in the turntable to a 2M Blue or red ideally. Trying to maximize this low/mid-end system for the $ the best I can.

There’s an fm tuner room with warm old KEFs, there’s a 3.1 system in a bedroom, another desk nearfield 2.1 setup with a tube pre. There’s a headphone amp in the bathroom, a dac and a tube headphone amp on the porch. It’s a quirky place over here! There’s my incredibly long and fully disclosive introduction to you. What would you do if you were me?

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Welcome!

You have a pretty extensive collection and it took me a couple of reads to get all of it. I do like reading about other people’s setups, you can feel the enjoyment you get out of it through your words. :slight_smile:

I think I would look at this bit. I’ve used that little U2 and it does a decent job but I do think you could benefit from a better DDC between the source and the rest of that chain A fun budget option you could look at is a Raspberry Pi dac/streamer. Volumio, Moode etc also allow you to then use your phone as a remote control, which you mention having an interest in adding.

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Wow, welcome!

You threw a lot of Shiit at us there. It sounds like your system is part thoughtfully put together and part piecemealed from components that you just ran into along the way.

Instead of giving you a here’s what you should do next response, I’ll ask what do you want? You mentioned wanting to improve your 2 CH but what do you want long term and is your 2 CH your main concern and are you willing to move things around from your other systems in order to improve the 2 CH?

The Bifrost 2 is a very capable little DAC and IMO it’s something you can genuinely begin to build someone around. Speakers however are going to be what you focus on, research, figure out what you like and when you buy them, then think about what a good amp pairing for those speakers would be.

Giving that you have so much stuff already you’ll never be without music while you go through the upgrade process. Welcome to the forum and good luck with your journey. It’s a lot of fun to be in the position you’re in. Enjoy it!

Also remember, that you’ll be able to recoup some $ from your current gear, so leverage those funds as you upgrade.

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Lol, yeah it’s a pretty interesting setup you have there. From what I can tell you have more than a couple of speakers systems in addition to 1 or maybe even two headphone systems. But essentially the main space that you are trying to upgrade is the front room space that has the Schiit Sys + modius +turntable running to your Boston Acoustic speakers (plus your sub) right? There were so many systems mentioned that I’m just trying to clarify what it is that you are trying to upgrade lol.

Honestly was surprised that you don’t have the Bifrost 2 as the dac in the front room Setup but I guess that it’s not necessarily your main system? To build on what Dbcoper mentioned

Considering moving the Bifrost 2 to that system seems like a obvious upgrade path that wouldn’t cost you any money (and moving the modius to the other chain assuming you consider it more secondary of a system). And then of course the question is wether you still mainly want to upgrade the actual speakers and if you do then of course the amplifier of choice would also be a topic of conversation. :slight_smile:

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Possibly Dumb Question. I have a 1 hr demo of 2 different dacs on saturday and will be taking the amp with me (obv). When I travel with it I tend to put it on my passenger seat/passanger floor (depending on the car) instead of in the box (my arms are too short to lift the box alone…). Is it any more dangerous to the amp its self to being it on vs off? With only an hour I am kinda debating using my inverter to warm it up on the drive but wasnt sure if tube on vs tube off was any different in terms of susceptibility to damage from vibrations (driving)

I wouldn’t do it since I’m pretty sure tubes are more susceptible to breaking when hot, and the bigger issue is that most car inverters aren’t great and it could damage it so I really wouldn’t do that

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