Review of the DC with comparisons!
Final D8000 DC Pro Edition: Comprehensive Review – Eddie's hifi audio world.
3 Likes
A review of the dx6k…
I’m quite curious how these sound myself
2 Likes
So I’ve had a pair of DC Pro for a bit, and they’re interesting. I’m now pretty confident they’re the best final has ever done for an overall headphone. I always think the magic of finals are within their more subtle aspects that other headphones just don’t do as well, or their projects that are so fucking weird that you can’t ignore it; there’s no in between and thankfully this is the former. On the older pro, the main thing that really grew on me was the shape and texture of bass, I have not heard other headphones with that level of bass shape and timbre. The rest of the headphone wasn’t as universal praise from me, the bass on that is really what made me keep it around but it was fun and enjoyable for a more intimate, cleaner v shaped planar that had good overall technicalities and moments of impressive organicness despite it’s weirder overall experience (spatially also can have moments of brilliance in depth and placement + layering). The DC Pro is not that, they really had a different focus for this headphone, and it really shows. A few initial thoughts:
-
The biggest thing to me is that this headphone has that rare chameleon aspect to it for almost every metric. It represents whatever you play or connect to it really well. I have a largely really balanced and honest chain at the moment, but this has already helped to easily reveal how I had tuned it to match with the hekse, and it’s not happy about that lol. For whatever music you play, it will take on the characteristics of the recording as if it was already best suited to it. Both of these aspects were really fucking with my impressions and experiences, because it felt like inconsistency when I wasn’t expecting it, but with more testing and listening, this really is just a very unusually honest headphone. For example, I was trying to figure out how it staged and it’s overall spatial abilities but kept getting confused about the size, scale, and placement, but it’s just so close to the recording that it was throwing me for a loop. The way it recreates the sound of the room and the background of it is really fascinating; the overall background will go from a dense opaque to a deep black to smooth/soft gray and anything in between, and it took some getting used to. Or bass for example, sometimes it will feel thick and bloated, other times maybe overly clean, others potentially overly polite, all while having that awesome shape and texture that made the first pro special elevated to another level. All good headphones will shift to the chain and music in varying degrees, but I just fail to convey how well this in specific is doing it lol, and I think it’s the main reason why I am having a hard time wrapping my head around what this does, and why it’s both shocking but also boring lol. If you have a bad chain or bad music, this can become a very underwhelming or wrong sounding headphone, but unlike something like a susvara which lulls you into complacency and covers over your mistakes, or a sr1a which punishes you while claiming that it’s not the problem here, this headphone will just faithfully blend into the resulting problem which might not be easy to identify for some.
-
While doing all of this, it is not in your face, and has an air of refinement that just presents it to you, maybe in a more slightly relaxed and smooth? manner than neutral, but in a way that also doesn’t feel very colored or disruptive. This is the largest overall consistency for the headphone. And this isn’t to say it can’t be offensive either, it will flat out sound broken with some music if that’s how it was recorded, but it does it in a way that makes it very clear you’re the listener, if that makes any sense. I don’t want to say it doesn’t put you in the space itself because it recreates things extremely well, but it always is moreso presenting it to you rather than forcing you there. You have the choice to take it all in if you want to, or not. It’s not going to give you that super tactile and direct “live” sort of experience, but it also doesn’t feel like you’re being put in an artificial space and/or artificial space and you can easily take yourself there if you want to. You are present where it was recorded from, and you can experience all of the aspects of that place, but at your own leisure/desire. I don’t know, I feel like this paints it in a bad light, but I’m kinda neutral on it being this way because it allows the headphone to be both a universal daily driver yet remain very faithful to everything that goes through it or is connected to it. In this respect, some of the directness of the older pro would maybe be slightly desired for my own preferences, but this is interesting and different in it’s own right and the way it maintains this almost unsteady balance is something I barely ever experience.
-
If I did have to pin some base characteristics to the DC, especially compared to the older pro, it’s more tonally complete and balanced despite still having a bit of a colder lean (mid weight and presence is the most improved), it’s a lot wider more expanded presentation than the more intimate and mostly depth focused older (while improving on the depth and accuracy as well), technicalities have taken a full step up to reach what I would consider equal susvara level on a reasonable chain (but can’t confirm how high it scales, as mentioned it’s so sensitive I’d imagine it scales almost as much as the susvara now). I do think there’s a bit of extra smoothing on treble but I still think it can get a bit too harsh sometimes like the og. And those 2 huge things I just talked about previously that are way more important than these. It both feels like a refinement of what was on the Pro, but taking those aspects in an entirely different and much more realized vision of what was likely their original goal with the D8K. From what I had briefly read/gleamed it really seemed like the DC were a more subtle refinement of the formula, I think that’s really under representing what these do, but I can also see how some might get that impression if their chain isn’t up to snuff. The older d8ks feel more like a traditional headphone, this does not, and because of that it almost feels hard to make the comparison.
-
The Washi pads are huge and slightly rough but not in a bothersome way, the awesome part of them is that they breathe so well while still having great bass, the headphones are a lot more open feeling because of it and I feel like the pads won’t get gross and don’t heat my ears/head up much at all. I do think clamp is higher in comparison though and I don’t like that, less weight was a good change. I don’t find it as comfy as a hekse or susvara in weight, clamp, and pad shape/material but they’re still overall comfy headphones once you get used to them. I need more time to talk about cable differences, but this headphone reveals them extremely well, and right now it’s begging for a brise or danacable, the options I have here don’t feel right for my chain. I’ve got a proto norne drausk and the stock cables with an adapter (I wish it came with an SE cable), and while I think the stock cable gives them a reasonable brighter balance that’s well rounded but restrained/reserved, getting them on the norne really lets them open up spatially and dynamically, but exposes the lack of refinement and upper harshness/forwardness that can happen with that cable (also adds more weight and warmth which is a welcome improvement). I would say stick with stock unless you can move to something warmer and very refined/capable since otherwise it feels more like strong compromises that can easily mess up balance.
I’ll add more when I get more time, it’s just something that’s caused me a lot of internal rethinking of my setup and what I want out of it, planning changes to best allow this to perform. When I first got them, I was honestly really disappointed in every aspect vs the hek, but after letting them break in a bit and really getting listening time in, it took me some time to really appreciate what they’re doing and why they’ll likely be what I plan to settle with for a long ass time (there’s still a few other headphones I’m thinking about down the line though, but it’s very very very few lol). I’ll think about proper comparisons when I have more time on them, and when I better optimize my chain for them.
11 Likes
I need final to release a sub 1k usd headphone that’s not a closed back lol like a open back version of the 4000cl would be cool.
I’m sort of interested in the dx6000 because it’s dynamic and not planar but I’m not about that price tag these days for headphones lol
2 Likes
I hope one of them is a Yamaha… Like seriously, that hp deserves way more attention! 
In fact, I wonder if Yamaha had any part in the DC like they did with the pro… Or something along those lines. Forgot where I heard it from.
I really want to try that 10000 purely out of curiosity, but $$$$$$$…
1 Like
In the words of Homer J Simpson, it’s funny because its true.
This is an interesting line to me, because how you’ve described the characteristics of it and you’re looking for stage size scale and placement. It’s how I listen to my two channel, and it’s why I often have come to jesus moment when listening to it but never really have the same experience with HP. Whether my HP chain has never approached the level of my 2CH or what I think is more likely, that when I listen to HP, I simply cannot process audio in the same way, it confuses my brain and I find myself measuring sound stages in inches away from my head instead of ten, twenty, thirty feet from my sitting position or over my shoulder.
Hearing your description I’m not sure which it is, but I believe it’s more of a mental block in the way I process HP audio.
I will say that I do get this on the 8KP, so I read everything you’re saying on the DC with interest.
That said, I feel that I’ve spent a bit of time doing to the 8KP what you did with the HEKSE and it resonates with me the wording you use, fun and enjoyable and more intimate. With the changes I’ve made to the chain to combat the bit of leaness and it’s a headphone that I can listen to a long time, into the wee hours in the evening and just not tire.
To be honest, I’m not sure what I’d change and that’s what’s squelching the desire to move from where I am today. When you speak about the HEKSE it sounds like something I’d want to try but not at the expense of realizing that I’ll have to tweak my current chain around the edges to get it to where I’d like it. It could potentially be a good fit but that’s where I got back to my original commentary about I don’t think that I’m a sophisticated HP listener and that I’m always going to be the weakest link in any HP chain if that makes any sense.
I’m glad that you were able to pick this one up and that it’s rewarded your curiosity with real surprising results that exceeded expectation.
2 Likes
So the d8000 is one of those headphones that’s interesting in that regard, I’d pretty much call all that family more semi open than full open, and despite that it doesn’t sound like it, it’s more akin to vintage planar (the design itself is honestly that way, there’s a lot about it that’s really interesting how different they really go about it compared to most all other planar these days).
I’m very curious about that and the 10k lol
Unfortunately not, but that’s just because I am not looking for specialist cans to fill up on, I really want to pick one or two headphones, and devote everything to making it work. As much as there’s things I’d really like to try and hear, I want to keep my chain focused yet still well rounded if I can. This isn’t to say the yamaha sounds like a one trick pony, but rather it would require really redoing my chain to suit it best in a very specific way, and that would really limit what other headphones I’d consider unless I decide on it being “the one” which from what I read doesn’t sound like it would truly suit how wide of a variety of music that I care about. It really seems like a tube amp is the best match for it, and I am trying to avoid anything tube if I can for my own sanity (I also feel like my cabling and vibration focus wouldn’t match inherently well)
The only headphones I might actively try to seek out in the future are the raal 1995 immantis, audio technica adx7000/grado signature hp100 se, fostex th-910, or spirit torino valkyria titanium. If I ended up pivoting to estats, I’d look for a soltanus euridiche d-sx and stax x9000. Maybe that’s more than a few, but truthfully half of them are conditional on upgrading from the pass, which I don’t feel like doing unless I move to an aic-10 or 465/491. The more I listen to the pass scale and respond to tweaks, the less I want to change it, I’m honestly convinced it’s the best value higher end headphone amp you can genuinely get which is a pretty fucking bold statement.
There’s a lot of new things out that I’m behind on, some look stupid and boring, others look genuinely interesting, but I feel as though I’ve just reached a mental state that I’ve stopped focusing on trying to find “the one” headphone/source/tweak and focusing on every possible aspect I can within a chain to tailor it to my personal needs. With a good enough foundation, I can take most decent things to the level that I want them to. Of course there’s a point where it’s more cost effective to move to something else, but there’s just way more you can get out of something properly designed that I’ve stopped stressing about how “good” one specific individual piece is, and moreso it’s function into the whole.
They’re fundamentally different, so it makes sense. No headphone has really ever captured the true experience of a proper 2ch setup to me, but it also doesn’t have to, because it has it’s own pros that make it worthwhile too. I guess I have almost always lived in the headphone mindset, even though when I had my 2ch system it was so many lightyears away from headphones that there was never any point in comparing lol. I wouldn’t say the DC sounds like speakers, but at the same time yeah spatially these do something different from other headphones.
Yeah it’s something that is just really nice, and I think the DC Pro is also something that you can count as listen to a long time into the wee hours as well, but for different reasons. The HEKSE feels closer to a normal Pro in that regard even though they’re also fairly different, they both fall under “they have their own coloration and quirks that makes most all music enjoyable and drive well on most quality chains.” I don’t think the DC Pro do this, as they do not feel very colored, are much more picky, yet can still be great for everything and for awhile if you’re not hoping it to sugarcoat things for you. For me, I love hearing things as they are if I can, things that are awesome when awesome, and shit when shit, I enjoy hearing both. I won’t complain about the shit stuff becoming more awesome as long as it’s not at the expense of the awesome becoming shit lol.
I do really like the hifiman for that regard, they still allow the awesome music to shine, but help add some of that hifiman gold to things that might need it. The susvara if I had a proper amp for it genuinely might have been my pick over the final, only because for me it’s one of the few headphones that when you get right, you stop caring about anything else and just enjoy it as is. It just takes a lot to properly extract value out of that headphone, to the point where it loses value if you don’t already have a really high end setup for it. I didn’t even feel that way about the shang sr or other headphones in the same class-ish as the susvara. The HEKSE feels closer to the perfect balance of “stop caring” because they’re much cheaper, much easier to drive properly, and fall into that perfect middle point in their lineup of technical enough to mostly always be impressed/satisfied but still being forgiving and fun enough to not call attention to annoyances, it’s very balanced. Also the egg shaped headphones have a more fun and grand presentation than the non, and that does help with recordings that are more naturally flat/boring. I feel like hifiman lower than it maybe leave you wanting either in technicalities or refinement/balance, and if you go higher they either get into too fussy or too focused on technicalities at the cost of that comfortableness in sound. It’s one of the reasons why I ended up using the susvara more even though the shang sr was a better headphone by most metrics, the susvara just felt more “right” listening for enjoyment (I only say this though because I had a killer chain to offset the technical difference, otherwise the raw ability of the shang would overpower that desire for me). I really thought about going for a hek or sus unveiled, which seem like great technical beasts for the money but lose some of that “golden” feeling, to the point where those with competent chains I’ve seen stick with the og as the better balance. It seems like they’re almost trying to make their stats without an energizer. Not sure, I can’t say without trying them, but that sure does make me less interested in them unless they fell into my lap.
I say all this, but I’m genuinely not sure how I want to proceed. I’m equally tempted to go all in on them, or sell them and upgrade some other aspects of my chain instead lol. I really don’t know why I don’t feel 100% sold yet.
4 Likes
Brief update:
Largely feel the same about where they sit and what they do performance wise, but my enjoyment opinion on them has shifted for the better. Going back to the hekse makes them sound so fake and flat, and just way less of everything. not really a contest anymore. I still prefer hifiman tonality as I think the final do have a default colder lean that I wish was a bit more rich (maybe the normal d8000 dc would’ve been more enjoyable there, but I wanted the technical advantage of the pro), but I think I can solve that with a proper cable upgrade and more adjustment to my chain. I was able to move around some of the vibration platforms (pushed points closer to the edge of the case on the pass and moved one point under output stage on the dac closer to the middle) and cable routing (let the main power cable lay on the carpet more and removed 1 furutech ncf booster), some digital optimizations (some alsa and jriver config updates) to get a more saturated sound which is nice to give them a bit of a more forgiving lean. The next immediate step will be a danacable for them since I think that’ll fit right in with the sound of these.
I have other cable changes to make to further adjust for the finals, but I’m more confident in them now (for interconnect, digital, power). I do think with more burn in they’ve opened up more, I feel less need to push the volume higher to get what these offer, hopefully there’s a bit more to go there since it would be nice as I still think I have to listen a bit louder than I normally do for them to really open up. I really do think these can kinda just be “it” for me as an all rounder 1 headphone. I still have the itches of course, but I won’t be pursuing those for a long while, and would rather continue to bolster what I have now that I have a better idea of what they do and where they need some work. These are just one of those cans where the longer the listen the more you appreciate with them, and I’m glad I didn’t give into my immediate impulses on them lol
7 Likes
You’re due for an update on your system slide!
3 Likes
Updated my bio/profile page with where I’m at now (at the bottom)
5 Likes
I think the frogress bar also needs to be a little more filled too
1 Like
A bit of negative news, for some reason, after spending a lot of time with the HEK because they were just more comfortable post surgery, coming back to the DC Pro is a very very different experience than I remember, even after a few days of listening. I am not 100% confident in my hearing at the moment so I don’t want to say anything definitive, but something feels almost borderline broken with the final now. They’re consistently sibilant now (why?), spatially less enveloping and more flat, I feel like I’m not getting as much detail and lower level information, a distinct cold lean, and it feels less like it’s embodying a lot of what I talked about above.
These feel much more drastically different than any sort of like, acclimation or honeymoon issues, but also not bad enough to feel genuinely broken. I’ve been losing my mind trying to pinpoint if something else in my chain is going bad at first I thought it was a source/software thing, as there’s been a lot of linux kernel releases lately that all sound a bit different (there was a big change to how irqs are handled and some usb struff on 7.1.9 iirc and upgrades beyond that have sounded different from 7.1.8, although have gotten better as they’ve upgraded), but no that’s not it. Power? Variable yes still but not it either. I put on the hekse and suddenly things feel enjoyable again.
Why? What changed with the finals over the span of a week or two of not using them? Is this burn in? This feels like the only thing I can possibly think of? Am I just in a really bad burn in curve with these? In a sense my comment of them being more reserved/presenting with a bit of smoothness and less direct might signal a lack of burn in initially since some drivers can be like that, but this feels like opposite and like it’s collapsed into something bad. This would genuinely be so tragic if the headphone was so good pre burn in but just sucks post burn in for me lol. I will be putting this on an aggressive burn in schedule starting from now, because this is stupid and it BETTER be just a phase lol.
Another thought is that if it’s perhaps the pads, they’re huge and I really wonder if they have a strong break in themselves, so perhaps that could also explain the difference being they weren’t touched for a week. I’m not really sure. I’m also more and more convinced that the norne pairup is NOT working well for me, so I will likely swap back to stock when I get an adapter for it. I will be planning on making a heavy cable investment to extract the best from it I can. Maybe as it burns in the cable problem becomes more and more a problem? I don’t really know either. Remains to be seen.
Gah, this sucks lol
Edit: What if they just exposed more issues with my chain that I wasn’t able to hear before? I don’t know, grasping at straws
2 Likes
How do you do your burn in? Just music on shuffle? Or you got like a specific process?
1 Like
Yep I don’t really overthink it, just everything on shuffle and hope I don’t get unlucky with a long ass random track of almost silence lol
2 Likes
I’ve read there’s break in with the pads as well, so maybe keep them compressed as well.
1 Like
I believe it, it’s honestly the most probable thing to have the potential to revert over time right? They’re thick and rougher to the point where they really do feel like they need time to break down. I don’t have a dummy head anymore, I guess I’ll have to change that lol
Sorry to make things more complicated, but sounds like it’s underpowered. Maybe you might be listening to them louder than usual and the coherent sound is falling apart? Do they still sound good like you remember them in a low volume?
1 Like
I kept the volume at the same as it was before, and honestly I’ve been listening at a slightly lower level because it’s more uncomfortable. I felt they opened up with more volume previously, and the sound is consistent/expected across the volume range. I would have thought a pass would’ve been enough as well. I guess I can see if I can find my mass kobo portable and give that a go, but that’s a lot less power and I don’t have the cable needed to hook it up to my dac
I would’ve thought the same if they sounded like this from the get go, it’s the fact it changed for the worse is what’s more confusing me
1 Like
After burn in for 24 more hours, they actually sound more sibilant but more space today, hmmmmm. I guess I’ll keep at it, and I might switch to pink noise
1 Like
Saber might be on to something. Have noticed with the HE6se V2 that amps that are barely doing it well or more borderline can vary day to day because of power, like the power supply is kind of stretched to its limit already and power problems compound that. And by vary I do mean veer towards sounding broken lol. So my guess is that it could be the HPA-1 being an unoptimal match combined with power issues. You’ve already experimented with power iirc, but still might be worth unplugging the biggest power offenders in the house and/or trying to listen between 11pm-5am when the grid is quieter. Doesn’t help ofc that it’s being compared to the HE1000se which is one of the least stressful headphone for an amps driving ability that I’ve ever seen.
2 Likes