Dongle DAC amp thread, L&P, iBasso, A&K, Earmen, Audioquest, iFi, Hiby, etc

Admin note: edited title to include all dongle dacs and make a general thread. Original title

So far these are 3 of the dongles that have impressed me recently, so might as well do a quick rundown. The main contenders are the Questyle M12, Luxury & Precision W2, and Lotoo PAW S1

So signature wise, the m12 is almost a mix of a more clear yet bodied forward signature, where the w2 sits in a more neutral slightly warmer relaxed leaning, and the s1 sits more toward a cleaner slightly more dry analytical forward neutral.

When it comes to detail and resolving power, the w2 clearly leads the pack, and the lotoo has a bit of an edge over the m12 imo.

For control, I think the w2 easily has the most command and grip, and actually after that the questyle just has a sense of control that the s1 doesn’t seem to which is strange to me (but the questyle is softer leaning).

Dynamically I think the w2 is easily the strongest in both macro and micro, the m12 takes a more micro foucs, but the s1 kinda has it’s weak point here depending on pairing imo but it doesn’t stand out in either regard.

Speed and seperation I’d say the w2 clearly ahead, with the s1 following and the m12 lagging behind a slight bit.

For smoothness, personally I actually find the s1 the smoothest sounding which you wouldn’t expect, followed by the m12, and the w2 after that which ended up sounding a bit raw at times when it potentially shouldn’t have.

Stage wise, the w2 easily has the widest stage and is most coherent in placement and depth, the m12 has a smaller stage but is still very coherent and has reasonable depth, the s1 has a wider but more vague feeling stage than the m12 but not as large as the w2.

For timbre and organicness, I think the w2 still leads but the m12 is not far behind in this case, the s1 noticably lags behind imo.

For impact and slam, I think the w2 again is really good here, m12 is pretty decent, but the s1 feels more limp in this case and feels lacking a bit depending on pairing

For texture, none of them really have all too much to offer but the w2 is getting there.

For noise floor, the w2 and s1 are dead silent with basically everything I threw at them, m12 has a bit of noise with very sensitive iems, but it’s still not in the big problem area or anything

All of these dongles have enough headroom for iems imo, although for headphones, imo the only one that I was able to reliably push and not have run out of steam was the w2.

For some more midrange headphones for pairing:

HD600: W2 easily the best pairing in terms of spatial recreation, dynamics, impact and body, and resolving power, although it could get raw in the treble a bit. S1 had nice smoothness but felt pretty dull and flat overall, likely due to lackluster dynamics and drive. The M12 had great timbre, nice tonal balance, good clarity, but a bit soft and it’s stage was a bit too much on the smaller side

Kennerton GH50: W2 again leads strong, although I do think that it somewhat emphasizes the lower treble boost that can lead to a bit of shoutyness. But plays to the strengths of this headphone for the most part. The s1 leads to a very smooth and soft sound, with good clarity. The lack of dynamics is a reasonable handicap, but I still enjoyed this pairing. For some reason I wasn’t as keen on the M12, it did have a bit more noisy background, and also while it offered good tonality it somewhat felt a bit restrained and too soft leaning for my tastes with this headphone.

Diana v2: was very surprised, the W2 actually handled this well enough to sound decent. Other dongles couldn’t really.

The only reasonably appropriate pairings for iems I still have is the sarda really: w2 easily best performing, actually really nice pairing overall, although treble did get a bit hot. Noise floor non concern. The paw s1 was a bit more smooth and chill, not technically up to par but still reasonable, noise floor not a problem. The M12 did have noise floor concerns, and I didn’t enjoy the softness in this pairing either, so not recommended.

Edit: Also the FiR VxV: W2 clearly leads here, but I actually like the tonality of the M12 more with this one, gave a better sense of organicness (but not on same technical level). S1 gave best sense of neutrality, but lacked the technical capabilities of the W2 and life of the M12

Overall, the w2 clearly leads the pack in most regards and feels like a big upgrade over the other 2, but given it’s price that’s what I’d expect. The m12 to me feels more compelling with more things I threw on it over the s1, although there were some parings where you may want to consider a s1 over the m12. Honestly all three have really changed what I thought was possible for the little dongle dacs, so I do think all three are worth a look depending on what you have. I would find the w2 more compelling than some of the 500+ daps, and the m12 and s1 beating out some of the 300 ish or under daps for sure.

GRIPES:

Questyle - High gain mode is dumb to get working and that sounds better so you have to trick it, ends up draining my battery the fastest it feels like as well

Lotoo - EQ modes suck, and I think it’s slightly missing dynamics and lack of true drive and command hampers the experience

W2 - Honestly really not any problems with it given it’s price for me, perhaps can get a slight bit raw sounding at times but not enough to have an issue

I should also note some other dongles I tried, liked for the most part, but didn’t make the cut for various reasons (but could still be worthwhile too)

iBasso DC04: Actually like this one a fair bit for the money. It has basically all you could ask for at this price point, has good power and impact with reasonable control, good resolution, nice timbre, decent spatial recreation, above average tonal density, a more slightly warmer balanced signature, good dynamics. But I just think that spending a bit more can get you another improvement. But this one is worth a serious look if you want a more budget option

Earmen Sparrow: Enjoyed the sound, a more colored spectrum leaning more towards warmer relaxed and fun, but at too many times it sounded a bit bloated and unrefined, and kinda too dull at times

Hidizs S9 Pro: Higher power output, drives most things well enough, although unremarkable sound but does have clean ish headroom that will “get the job done” for the price. But you do live with meh dynamics, timbre, and resolution.

Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt: Enjoyed the sound and everything, good tuning/voicing, reasonable technicalities, but 300 is steep for what it offers imo, being a worse value put me off from it. Did def enjoy the dynamics, timbre, tonal density, and overall organicness though, with a bit of extra sweetness

UPDATE: New pretty awesome dongles

Got my hands on a few more dongles, Astell&Kern PEE51 (stupid name) and the Centrance DACport HD.

Signature wise the 51 takes a more neutral/lively/exaggerated forward approach, where the dacport takes more a neutral and clean but meaty and full signature (like the questyle)

Speaking of like the questyle, the dacport really kinda does what I like from the questyle, but offers that to a more refined and technical level, to where I’d admittedly pick the centrance most of the time, and as a bonus it comes with lower noisefloor and blacker background. It isn’t as soft and liquid as the M12 but I do personally think it offers a bit of a step up with a similar enough signature. So that might dethrone the M12, at least for headphones though, with some iems I still think the M12 could still be compelling imo. But I do think this just has a bit more to offer

Regarding the PEE51, I personally think it’s an interesting middleground between something like the S1 and the M12. Generally is more lively and forward than both with more sparkle in the treble and more forward mids and bass too. This being said it’s more on the technical side of things, it’s got good tonality, density, and timbre, but there’s something that stops it from feeling that organic to me (might be coherency). Good speed and separation, pretty resolving, almost as black background as the lotoo, very nice seperation. The biggest drawback though is that spatial recreation is meh overall, I do think the lotoo is wider and the m12 is deeper, but the 51 is only ok and average here. Smoothness wise I’d say it’s not as smooth as either but not as potentially raw as a W2. Dynamically very alive, with an equal macro and micro focus that does better than both the lotoo and m12. Basically if you have heard an astell and kern player, the 51 sounds like that and carries most of the traits to it, sounds like a baby sr25 if that gives any reference, pretty worthwhile.

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Was really surprised by this earlier when I plugged in the HD600. I tried the Dianas last week and was pleasantly surprised there as well. I might almost prefer the HD600 on the W2 over the WA-8…almost.

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That’s very interesting lol, I def do like the wa8 a lot more with the 600, but it’s also not a fair comparison imo, but the other 2 dongles really just didn’t do the 600 justice compared to the W2. Also yes, was surprised on the diana front, didn’t think it had it in it lol. W2 is just really surprising for what it is.

Really all I needed to say was just tldr w2 is a beast lol

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Yeah, not sure if it’s just the signature and sounding a bit more spacious or what. Although, I was only listening to the WA-8 with the internal DAC, so was handicapping it a bit too. Either way…suffice to say I’m enjoying the W2.

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I should also note some other dongles I tried, liked for the most part, but didn’t make the cut for various reasons (but could still be worthwhile too)

iBasso DC04: Actually like this one a fair bit for the money. It has basically all you could ask for at this price point, has good power and impact with reasonable control, good resolution, nice timbre, decent spatial recreation, above average tonal density, a more slightly warmer balanced signature, good dynamics. But I just think that spending a bit more can get you another improvement. But this one is worth a serious look if you want a more budget option

Earmen Sparrow: Enjoyed the sound, a more colored spectrum leaning more towards warmer relaxed and fun, but at too many times it sounded a bit bloated and unrefined, and kinda too dull at times

Hidizs S9 Pro: Higher power output, drives most things well enough, although unremarkable sound but does have clean ish headroom that will “get the job done” for the price. But you do live with meh dynamics, timbre, and resolution.

Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt: Enjoyed the sound and everything, good tuning/voicing, reasonable technicalities, but 300 is steep for what it offers imo, being a worse value put me off from it. Did def enjoy the dynamics, timbre, tonal density, and overall organicness though, with a bit of extra sweetness

Curious how the W2 would compare to the Mojo since the Mojo used is about the same price as the W2 new. The W2 would be more of a portable piece in my mind that could be paired with my phone and pocketed on the go, vs the Mojo which I really only use at a desk.

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That’s a good question. I think they could potentially trade some blows, but from a technical level I do think the mojo would edge it out. But with some iems I might find the W2 to be more desirable, although with headphones I might find the mojo to be my preference

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My W2 came in today, initial listening impressions with the Andro is this thing is great. Great pairing with the Andro so far, no iematch needed, excellent volume range. Really liking this combo even at my desk.

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Can someone point me in the right direction of a decent enough spdif cable for the W2? Their manual confused me a little bit, 3.5mm but looks like it may need to be a 4 pole? Not 100% sure. Or because the spdif is switchable, maybe it doesn’t need to be a 4 pole?

Yes that’s true it needs a 4 pole. So L&P uses Fiio’s SPDIF standard (although technically there’s no standard of any kind lol). What’s important is how they are wired because not all 4 pole 3.5mm SPDIF are wired the same. Just look for one that’s wired as TRRS → left/right/ground/SPDIF.

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I’ll add a little bit with USB pairing. Between them all, the one that’s most affected by USB power output is the M12. If you pair the M12 with an older phone or a phone with a weaker USB power output, you will get a constant click and pop when listening to the music, but it’s all fine when paired with laptop and iPad. Some people also have said that it can be used with most of the newer phone, but I can’t verify that. For the W2 and S1, I think they are simply best paired with a laptop and iPad, although you wouldn’t miss that much if you use your phone. Beware that with the W2, you are more prone to clipping when listening at a higher volume.

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I found I had that issue on a iphone 5c, but not on my v30+ or laptop

Yep you can push it too far

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Found this over at Head-Fi, seems like iPhones specifically will only send so much power to external devices:

Update 3: from Andrew @MusicTeck
“As far as we tested, there is no issues with W1 since it only draws 90mA, but W2 draws 110-120mA and iPhone has a limitation of 100mA to support external devices. So, when using W2 with iPhone 11 or 12 and W2 volume is over 70, it draws more current than iPhone allows and volume gets choppy and cuts off, even with that white cable. We suggest you set your iPhone to max volume, set W2 gain high and lower W2 volume below 70. That is when there are no issues with iPhone. Android phones and windows laptops don’t have this issue. Only iPhones.”

Also, a quick question: Is the sound quality much worse if you run this over single-ended?

Oh, well that explains why the majority of stuff I had tried on an older iphone consistently sounded worse

It’s worse, still usable, but it does sound a fair bit better balanced, so I would really make sure you have a way to run the W2 balanced otherwise I don’t know if it’s worth it imo

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New dongle update

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You think you’ll pick up the new Lotoo S2? I’m curious about that one since I enjoyed the S1.

I might, depending on what I see on it, it does look promising though

What settings are forum friends using on their W2?

Mine just arrived in the mail about an hour ago and I set it to “Tune 02” with slow roll-off for like two songs so far, but I haven’t had any time to really try out all the different settings, so I’m curious what other people are using.

I’ve personally kept mine on nos with tune 02, although sometimes slow roll off is nice too (but not a fan of the other filters)

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Also quickly back to more dongle comparisons, someone is pushing me to try an Ovidius B1 and while it looks interesting I’m not sure if I want to try it. It’s got a propitiatory way of connecting to the phone which one would be sol if lost, and there’s nothing immediately stand out about it but that also interests me. Might end up wanting to pick one up. But I even wonder why I’m trying these dongle dacs, don’t need them at all and don’t use them either, guess I just find them interesting lol

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