DDC, Digital to Digital Converters

Sovrce Gear
61

That’s not necessarily the case. I use Roon so I don’t have to think about other streaming protocols but a lot of these streamers. The iFi you name in your example also support other streaming protocols like DNLA which is pretty standard. You can then use software like Audiorvana or MusicBee or other PC based software like that and stream to the audio files to the iFi network bridge.

The benefit is that you’re just sending the audio via Ethernet to the streamer. Since Ethernet uses error correction to assure the file is okay and it’s not a time sensitive transfer so not much to worry about there, and you’re not using a computer’s noisy USB to send the file out as a processed FLAC or other type of format that would be sent out via the USB which then has to use PLL to time the transfer to your DAC in a process that doesn’t use error correction and is extremely time sensitive.

So that’s the main reason/benefit for getting off the PC.

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62

Okay okay, that sounds interesting and logical to me, great explanation and many thanks :+1::pray::+1::pray:.
You could really think about that about the Ifi streamer and give it a try.

Speaking of Audirvana, are we talking about Studio or 3.5 or both?
I’d have to try again whether it would work with Roon.
I only got it to work on the PC with a lot of effort, and Remote didn’t work with the Roon app.
That would have to be dealt with separately when the time came, but could possibly solve the problem in that case.

But something else, there are actually Pcie cards from Jcat, Matrix Element that should actually kill everything that causes “noise” in the PC.
Of course, the signal path would be very long, as Hans described, until it arrives, figuratively speaking, instead of directly to the streamer to the Dac.

Where do such Pcie cards stand in relation to a streamer?
The intended use would be for home servers rather than PCs, I think, or am I mistaken?

63

Solutions like that are part of the reason I said there are ways to make the PC less noisy. I’ve never tried one but I’ve read positive results from people who have. Like everything else in the hobby though, there are always going to be people that question the need for it in the first place.

IMO a DDC like the Singxer in between the PC and the DAC makes things much much better, but we’re always chasing the incremental benefits and an audio bridge is one of those incremental improvements that doesn’t cost a lot. Or you can go all in and spend $5k on one.

I remember now the problems you had getting the Ifi to work.

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64

No, that had been the node and getting Roon to launch on the PC :face_with_peeking_eye:.
I had not yet had the Ifi.
What bothered me about the Node was that the setup was not human, and its USB output was not compatible with the Su2 at all, only with the Dac itself.

I’m thinking about trying something like this again without a pc but it should be so sophisticated that you can at least use it with your tablet like playlist,and various song search ect…

Surely there are great priced devices where it works and is also technically so mature.without having problems.

I am such a candidate who has the Matrix audio card in the PC and uses the Su 2.
Let’s put it this way, I am satisfied.
I installed it, plugged it in and never looked back.
Sometimes it would just be nice to stream directly without a pc and just sit back and enjoy and be able to control the whole thing with the tablet.

65

I use my Node with an ipad to run the software and it’s connected through USB directly to a DAC. I did notice some weird noise when using Roon but Qobuz directly from the Node’s software works well.

66

Same here, but SU-6 instead of the SU-2. I am also happy. Are you using external power for your Matrix?

I enjoy a PC for all the options. I also use EQ APO for some Parametric EQ for room modes and I do a -2db gain to make sure there is no digital clipping which can occur at 100% PC volume.

67

Yes I use an external power supply with the Matrix,it wasn’t necessarily expensive and thought the $90 won’t matter anymore.
I didn’t think the option Matrix provided was wrong.

I had also looked at the Jcat but it was not available.

@orrman

I found the Node software awful unfortunately.
Unfortunately, the German support has also been so incapable of answering normal questions.
That’s why I thought it couldn’t be like that.
Why it didn’t work on the Su2 came to my mind later that it might be a setting thing with the dip switches.

68

What voltage psu are you using?

69

I have buy this one

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70

Is there any consensus on the best DDC? Singxer SU6 maybe? I know theres the Topping U90 and the Gustard one too…

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71

Depends.

With the Singer Su 2&6 it depends more on the connectivity of what you need, with the Matrix Audio as well.

With the others I don’t know exactly.
I would personally distance myself from the opping.

Singxer Matrix, run mostly with very little power.
Denfrips I think with a transformer.
So I guess there will be advantages and disadvantages.

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72

https://forum.sonusapparatus.com/t/used-deals/27/1570?u=bmn1251

73

Synergy strikes again….

I have been playing around with a MATRIX xpdif-2 and Singer su-6 ddc in my main 2 channel system. Both units offer positive improvements that can be heard/understood if you focus your ears/attention properly on known tracks and really listen. Unfortunately in MY system both negate the specific improvements/sonic character my FTA USB cable brings into the system and this has been a back and forth experiment for days and many many hours allowing myself to enjoy each set-up for its own distinct flavor trying to figure out my preferences.

Here is a break-down of sonic differences i have been able to note on this current system consistently.

Innuos sense 2.0 > Innuos ZENith Mk3 > FTA Callisto direct to Lampi Baltic 3 DAC
Thus far this is my preferred combo with current amplifiers and tube combo. Grand soundstage, well behind the speakers and extending out on both sides (on most tracks it is difficult to isolate the speakers). Excellent depth and sharp imaging with really good instrument separation. This particular USB brings out a depth and presence in the bottom end that I find VERY pleasing and helps warm up the room which happens to be a bit oversized due to the really tall ceiling. It’s not easy to describe but easy to “feel/understand” by simply swapping out the USB and then you just kinda “notice it” :man_shrugging:

Innuos sense 2.0 > Innuos ZENith Mk3 > Singer SU-6 using AES output to Lampi Baltic 3 DAC
Thus far every DDC i plug in seems to have a blacker background, which allows for more detail and a small improvement in separation, this is across the board and is pleasing. With the Singer SU-6 soundstage width is excellent, almost as wide as my preferred combo and it takes an unusual amount of playing particular tracks to notice the very small difference. The overall performance of the system though leans out with the current configuration, There is nothing bad or weird about the sound, it’s simply leaner and less visceral in the room. Excellent performance no complaints, relatively inexpensive performance upgrade. I have not had a chance to try different cable or output combinations yet. I did NOT use the stock power supply, I immediately used an iFi unit, I won’t bother w/ stock power supplies at this point if I can swap out, I have a small stash of iFi units (elite, X and power2) and like them.

Innuos sense 2.0 > Innuos ZENith Mk3 > Matrix X-SPDIF2 using AES output to Lampi Baltic 3 DAC
I think this unit is a champion at its price point, I have 2 of them and in direct comparison to the Singer SU-6 the only differences I have been able to discern between the 2 units is that I feel the Matrix may be a bit warmer overall, just enough so that if normally your components ride on the side of overly bright this would possibly take the “sheen or glare” off while the Singer unit might enhance those characteristics.

Neither unit as tested allows the visceral feel of the music to shine through like what the FTA Callisto USB going direct from the streamer to the DAC does and this is where my quandary lies, I take a hit on overall detail presentation by not using a DDC but the system simply sounds “better” to my own preferences…

Lastly, I did also try out the SoTM usb regenerator, it’s a very nice unit but it brought the soundstage in way tighter than is my preference, with the SoTm unit in my main 2 channel using the Lampizator DAC’s i lost too much soundstage width past the speakers to keep the unit in place. (it felt weird) Surprisingly though that is NOT the same effect it has with my other DACS in the smaller room, quite possibly because of the size of the room the soundstage does not feel as restricted while i also receive all the benefits of a blacker background, thus the SoTm and the others reside elsewhere in the house fully integrated and performing their duties.

In conclusion, I find each and every DDC I own worthwhile, they all help bring out detail that is otherwise lost, I use one in each system except my main 2 channel rig. I have an almost OCD level of preference for making my speakers disappear and having a particular sense of space in the music. With both my Amber 3 and Baltic 3 from Lampizator that preference was affected just enough that I mostly do not care for the benefits provided by any of the DDC’s and would rather listen without them in place. I have worked hard to tune my main 2 channel rig just right for me and not every upgrade is necessary or worthwhile at this point. Happy listening all, YMMV :man_shrugging:

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74

Getting my SU-6 today and would love to compare it to a very good USB cable but I have only an Audioquest Carbon here. Will start with those I guess. I would be so happy if ended up preferring a system with a better cable over another box personally.

Did you try using the FTA through one of the DDCs? Is that possible?

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75

Ran into the same issue with callisto and denafrips Gaia…ultimately, the antipodes stack and a voodoo Stradivarius aes kept up with the Callisto. Im thinking FTA really punches above its price point, especially used.

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76

I run the FTA directly into the DDC and then use a fancy AES cable out. I truly believe the Lampizator have great synergy with the FTA cables IF the sound is pleasing to you. Not everyone may enjoy it though which is why i was being so very careful in my wording. These are simply the characteristics I have so far found in this particular set-up. All of the DDC units showed an improvement in detail, it’s just the characteristics that are lost are not worth it to me.

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77

@orrman , now you got me thinking. The SoTM usb regenerator takes USB in AND feeds USB out. Maybe, just maybe using 2 FTA USB cables w/ that unit MIGHT maintain the sound character provide by the FTA cables while also providing the darker/blacker background w/ the improvements that provides. Maybe. It’s an expensive experiment. My gut tells me though based on what I have experienced trying things out, that the very delicate changes swapping cables and DDC’s can make are more a hit and miss game of finding synergy in your room w/ your combos.

On a good note, swapping DDC’s in and out did NOT affect the character of the amps themselves. They stayed true to their particular tube combinations w/ the positive additions of clarity and detail. ALL of this though is so very subjective, and even worse yet ROOM dependent, because i was very clear in that the same effects did NOT work the same on my 2 channel in my smaller room. Sometimes all this playing around makes my head hurt :exploding_head:

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The Innuous starts out with a cleaned USB out in the first place. So I can see why sticking a DDC inline and then going AES out to your Lampi you’d get a different signature. You’re removing both the impact of the Innuous and the Callisto!

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79

You are correct my man, there is this too. I may have a spare DDC to sell soon. I have more of them than i do systems to plug them into at this point :joy:

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I’m still experimenting with headphones so luckily less problems with the room. I expect the DDC to improve my chain but probably not by a lot and hopefully won’t change the characteristics. I do expect the new power supply for my streamer to do that though so a few interesting changes coming in the next couple of weeks. I think my next steps are cables and maybe a powerplant so I was curious on the FTA effect

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