For all APL HIFI source gear
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So continuing my thoughts from here
NOTE: This listening so far has been done exclusively with SACDs, this isn’t fair to evaluate on, so keep in mind this is best case for this DAC, just initial thoughts
Yesterday and today have been basically exclusively SACD ripping (didn’t have motivation to continue ripping my collection with only totaldac) and listening, and that means a lot of classical, a lot of classic rock, and a lot of jazz lol (although with some notable outliers that I ripped yesterday, one being a live kraftwerk album and another being rage against the machine). But I think this really is the one if you are a DSD fan in the slightest, easily the best I’ve ever heard these SACD hands down. Really just incredible performance with this format.
To actually give some other sonic notes, this is the most forgiving dac I’ve heard. But it’s also one of the best technically performing as well. I don’t know how this was achieved, but so far literally every sacd I’ve run though this sounds it’s best, can’t say that for other dacs I’ve tried. I don’t even think I’d call it embellishment either, it’s just emphasizing what’s good of everything lol. I really don’t know how it can make everything this good while offering this level of performance, I’ve found that my living room setup can end up quite ruthless at times, and I really don’t find it here, this either must be doing something really special or have great synergy with this system, I’m going to guess both lol. To be clear, it DOES NOT mask anything, all the flaws/shortcomings/meh aspects of the music are still present and obvious, but the big differentiator is that they aren’t painfully obvious or distracting. It gives you everything, but unlike other dacs of this caliber it’s able to take the best out of what you are listening to AND make you not really care about the less than desirable aspects. Really impressive
I will say though, that I am only listening to sacd which typically have a higher quality of production, so that could be skewing what I think, but don’t worry, I’ll make sure to run some proper garbage through it to see how low it can go (like some of the stuff in my most recent post in the music thread for example lol, need a break from old stuff anyways)
A really interesting characteristic so far is almost a sense of delicacy and sweetness throughout the entire range, but I only noticed this when switching back to the totaldac, it just has a really (and I genuinely hate to say this so I almost never do, but I’m using it to describe sonic characteristic, not use it in the way some others do, so it’s fine this one time) analog sound. By that I mean it really does sound like a proper reel to reel playing a master tape, although without the technical limitations that sometimes come along with analog tape to my ears. I had a friend say it sounded like vinyl, and to be honest I don’t really hear that, but that’s also because I think I’ve just found vinyl to vary wildly in sound characteristics from setup to setup but most reel to reel setups I’ve heard sound more consistent so I’m comfortable saying that.
Well that’s all fine and good, but what does that actually mean for the sound? It’s the most sweet yet well balanced dac I’ve heard, what I’m trying to say is that it strikes the best balance between sweetness and roundness with realism, it manages to make everything sound fairly fleshed out without calling any attention to the fact that it’s doing so, it doesn’t really sound colored until you compare with something else.
I did say this was a sweeter and more rounded/slightly soft sounding dac, but it never feels like it’s overly thick or rich either, it’s never artificially weighty or light, it’s fairly well weighted and it’s very consistent in it’s weight too. Makes you forget what it’s doing in a really positive way. I do think that there are times where it’s roundness and bloom are noticeable, and while that’s not ideal for all music I put through it so far, I didn’t really find it to detract from my experience much at all
Coherency and liquidity is top notch, and another stand out strength, everything is blended so damn well in a good way, and feels so organic and realistic.
Spatially, it’s strange. It’s very very black and excellent depth, fantastic separation, but it doesn’t recreate space as traditionally as I’d expect. This will make no sense, but it’s like being put in a room with high humidity if that make sense, everything feels more dense and thick and contrast is exaggerated, and I already mentioned the very vacant background so I don’t think I’m hearing a noisy background, it’s just like there’s a sense of more compactness and colored stage and space. I need more time to understand this one, and it’s also not really as stand out, it does feel a bit more flat and no nonsense than other dacs in this range, I think it’s blackness and separation really sorta save it from sounding unengaging or lacking in this regard, evening space out to be “average”
I do think that currently directness and incisiveness is a bit restrained, in the sense that all the information is there and very organic and sweet, but feels a bit more, hmmmm, not restrained but not really as tangible. It’s very enveloping but isn’t exactly gripping for me, like it’s not as “I’m there” as some others that I’ve heard. This doesn’t exactly take away from the experience, but I’d say the priority of this dac is to more take the best from the source and make it a very organic and pleasing experience and little drawback, and is less concerned with creating a more realistic and “there”. I don’t want this to sound like a knock, it’s just a very specific sonic goal it has and nails, but it’s not the most realistic/uncolored dac I’ve heard because of that, but again that’s totally fine for what it goes with and what it achieves.
Really those aspects have been what I’ve been focusing on right now, Further impressions and comparisons to come
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So sorry if im reading this wrong, but this sonic description reminds me heavily of what i hear in the meitner ma3. Would you say they have some similar standouts/sonic goals?
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Yes, I would actually strongly make the comparison to like a totl emm dac, would be an interesting comparison. Not heard the ma3 yet though
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Fwiw i was told ma1 → ma3 → dac2x v2 → dv2 are direct linear upgrades with the same exact house sound (by both the creator and the dealer). Just an increase in resolution/blackness/seperation/etc as you step up further and further, so if youve heard any of them you should be gold to extrapolate goals/presentation/tonality
Also very intersting. I will be cutrious to keep track of your thoughts s you try more music on it. If the totl from apl competes with the dv2 its actialy significantly cheaper used which is cool. Im now currious how the older models are since they can actualy be had prety cheap
Ok good to know, and I’d also agree that if you like one you’d like the other with meitner vs emm, basically the same line, very direct from my experience
I think it’s likely around the same, I paid around 20k give or take some, I’d guess dv2 is around similar, although I have seen older apl models get a lot lower (but if they hold up to this one, I do not know)
Thats about what a da2/dv2 go for. I must has bren seeing scam listings since i thought it was more of 13-14k
Could have also perhaps been mk1, mine is mk2 if they were dsd-mr
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So, this dac isn’t as good when it comes to non native dsd. And yes I tried both upsampling within the dac, and upsampling in software, neither produce as good of a result as most of my sacd. But it doesn’t diminish the experience enough to do anything close to ruin it
So far I think that really the way to go is upsampling in the dac to dsd 512, and using the zero filter (which is no filtering no oversampling, other filters are linear normal which I think is fast the other is linear slow, both oversampling 4x, and while they are nice, I think nos is better). Interestingly changing between like dsd128 vs dsd512 does matter, for example the higher you go the more dimensional and enveloping it is but the lower offer more snappy transients and cleanliness, but I think I favor the former most of the time.
I think a new descriptor that really suits this dac is the word effortless. Because it just kinda goes, and goes, and goes lol, it’s very non fatiguing and enjoyable, but again never feeling lacking from a technical perspective. It’s just really really engaging in a way that I think other dacs I’ve heard have tried, but failed, to pull off. Given what this dac goes for, I would have assumed it wouldn’t be for me, but more time in, and it really is something I will likely keep lol.
Spatially I think I understand it a bit more, it’s very organic and convincing in placement with a lot of verticality and definition, but it’s on the more compact and dense side of things spatially. And that can be absolutely awesome on some recordings, and feel a bit limiting on others. It’s just very defined to the recording, and that can be a good and bad thing lol. The insane blackness really does seal the deal here. The presentation while somewhat limited feels very open within it’s range
Dynamically, it’s incredibly well balanced, with a stronger microdynamic focus that is extremely well executed but is a bit more relaxed/not as strong when it comes to macrodynamics. It’s not the most dynamically impressive dac I’ve heard at this price point, it feels like it’s almost specifically a bit compressed but in a pleasing and rich sort of way, natural.
While speed isn’t lightning quick, separation is fantastic, so everything feels really really separated and well spaced even though speed isn’t the fastest, I don’t know how this was achieved lol, and it’s presented in a super organic manner.
Resolution wise, it’s easily up there and gives you everything, but insanely well presented to maximize what’s in a recording without pulling equal attention to the drawbacks, very strong in both macrodetail and microdetail/nuance
Control and grip isn’t really a stand out here, very well controlled on the lower level but overall a bit more of a softer and lax approach in comparison to other options
Extension is without concern
I do think that the bit of more roundness and softness isn’t exactly to my taste, but with how well executed it is, I really can’t complain because it didn’t really affect how I listened to things lol
Insanely coherent, liquid, very very large stand out
Already mentioned some other aspects that I elaborated on enough, things haven’t really changed there.
Oh timbre, it didn’t stand out to me at first, but it’s really really good here and I was too distracted by other aspects to notice lol
I will say though, it’s texture is amazing, but the problem lies in that energy and incisiveness somewhat lack. Like it’s there, and it’s fantastic, but it just feels like there’s a bit of a barrier or coating over that texture preventing me from fully getting it/feeling really realistic. That’s really the biggest almost coloration of this dac outside it’s somewhat more sweeter and bloomy characteristics
I don’t think I’m really ready to make proper comparisons yet, but this would absolutely make it into my top 5 dacs of all time lol (if I had one). It’s just something I still need to feel out and understand further
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Sounds like you should keep this one for DSD and the other one for PCM. You’re welcome. 
That’s pretty much the plan at this point. I easily have 500+ sacd, and really enjoy a lot of the recordings, so I think it’s worth the value given how much I listen to them (when I can, the totaldac made me listen to more pcm since it just didn’t do as well with the sacd). Although I do not plan for this to stay in my living room setup, this really was designed for my desktop setup with the fm gear (when that gets here)
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You’re a total lunatic and I’m here simply to live vicariously through your lunacy.
BTW, Are you listening to your SACD through a transport or directly as digital file?
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Well that’s not very nice lol
At this point have to rip them, because using sacd in a transport is really not happening most of the time, because sony requires that the transport must not be able to output raw dsd and only the pcm hybrid layer, so typically the only transports that can play and send dsd are ones that have a proprietary encrypted digital out made explicitly for the same brands dac. There are notable outliers though, for awhile PS audio transports output raw dsd that any dac could take (over i2s iirc), there’s a few others that will as well. But the only transport I have now is a meridian 500 mkii lol, which is not going to work
I’ve ripped a lot of my sacd with the ps3 method, and I play them from my antipodes (at the moment)
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I meant that in the nicest possible way and I’m sure you’ve been called worse. lol
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Just giving you a hard time lol, I have to fully accept that most of the stuff I do is really past the level of sanity in most eyes
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Post removed, check comparison for most up to date info: PLACEHOLDER
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Now having a few more dacs in house, man, the APL really is a lot more strongly colored than I realized lol, comparing to more options, I don’t actually know if I’m going to end up keeping this around. Orrrrrr, it could just be a few more impressive things got brought over yesterday causing that thought lol
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Dv2 hype!