Antipodes streamer/server thread, CX / EX / S / K

The last year has been quite the revelation for me that made me a believer in server/streamers. I think it also helped that a few of us were going through the same journey. I originally thought it was just a stupid big box that would be pretty and store or stream my music, a glorified computer. Boy, was I wrong.

My first experiment came when I used a DAP to “just get off of the laptop.” That was already an immediate improvement. I knew the DAP wasn’t a good choice, but merely reducing the noise coming from the laptop was enough to make me notice.

My next step was to get my first legitimate server which was the Aurender N100H. I was hesitant because it only came in USB input. Fortunately, USB input was one of my inputs on my DAC, so once I embraced using USB, I knew I made the right value buy as well. The improvement was immediate. In fact, I could notice the change with the server sooner than my DAC upgrade. It was that apparent.

Finally, to the topic at hand. After this experience, I knew streamers/servers mattered. In a digital setup, if your speakers or headphones can handle it, the front end is so important. To use a simple analogy, I think of a water garden hose, where your nozzle attachment is your speakers. Your electronics in the middle are the thickness of the hose. All of your pieces are things that potentially restrict or let water flow freely, with your server being the supply of the water. I didn’t know what performance I was holding back because I was still getting water out of the hose. Improvements in my streamer and DAC now lets that water flow freely. I get a ton of realistic and head-faking presentation and room information that I was holding back on previously.
The Antipodes combination is essentially two computers that have specialized jobs. The CX can do both, but handles the server aspect better. The EX came first and can do both, but handles the rendering job the best. When you combine both, it’s efficiently using both boxes at their peak performance.

While upgrading speakers or headphones is apparent by prioritizing sound signature, how they handle detail, timbre, etc. I think front-end electronics prioritize presentation the most. You start to get improved presentation, staging, imaging, holographicness, room information, detail, and how that detail is handled. It seemed close to impossible, but I was able to get more of that with this combination. The presentation now wraps around me a bit more. There is more depth in the presentation so now I’m in a huge bubble that envelopes about triple of my room (sort of how people describe some headphones as bubbles). Again to reiterate, this improvement was so apparent that I was able to notice it sooner than my Golden Gate improvement. I also felt the improvement was able at the same level as my Amber 3 to Golden Gate upgrade as well and I think that warrants some writing.

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Very much looking forward to listening to the newest set-up. :star_struck:

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Big enough upgrade to be tempted to break apart the previous synergy :innocent:

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Nice nice, glad you are enjoying it so far @Veritas!. I bet it’s a pretty substantial difference, with some of my current dacs a nice digital source is almost like upgrading the dac, as you go up the difference a good digital source makes is pretty damn substantial lol

An analogy taken too far

Going to give my own spin on this analogy although want to get a bit more stupid here lol

Think of an audio system as a pump setup lol

When it comes to digital sources, think of a pump sucking up water.

When you are pulling water from a sump or water reserve, you want to make sure you get proper suction and don’t let air or debris in. One big concern when drawing water is the creation of a vortex near the suction side intake for water. This vortex can allow for air to be pulled into the pump reducing pressure and throughput, and also that air can lead to cavitation inside the pump which can reduce efficiency and also potentially damage things like the impeller, seals, bearings, cavity, etc. This can be solved with strainers and diffuses to make it more difficult for these vortex to form, or also by putting the suction line deeper submerged in the sump (or by reducing the total flow rate/limiting performance).

But this is getting too far into actual pumps though lol. Basically when you get a streamer/server/digital source think of that source as reducing potential for air to get in the line and filtering out debris from the signal which allows your dac (pump) to preform to a higher capacity as intended and improve efficiency. This ensures the dac (pump) is getting the best possible input it can so it can perform it’s best on the output.

This was overly complicated for no reason on 2nd thought lol, ignore the rest

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To actually contribute to this thread somewhat, I had ordered an antipodes k50 some time ago, and now have it in hand. Squeezebox is irritating in my network but it still works pretty well and multiplatform which is nice (no I’m not going to touch roon). It’s pretty damn apparent right off the bat via usb, will have to wait and say more later lol. Also local files sound a fair bit better than ones pulled from my server which pisses me off (just had some micron 1100 2tb drives thrown in there so 6tb total, but no matter how much I put in there, it won’t be enough for my music collection)

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I have to wonder what causes this, my best guess is it’s the network connection being active introducing additional noise. It can’t be ground noise since the ethernet cable is connected either way, maybe crosstalk from the signal lines on the cable.
Makes me want to try an “audiophile” ethernet cable, or optical CAT8 to see if it makes a difference.
All the network transports require data to be buffered locally, and there is no clock in a USB signal, so it’s nothing to do with data transmission. I’d assume the server processes the bits the same way in both cases.

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I do have some audio networking stuff on loan, but I hesitate to even really talk about it lol. Still haven’t tried it on here yet but mixed results on my auralic stuff. But time to see how that goes now. Arrrgggg this just keeps pissing me off

Also this has just confirmed to me that the pacific likes usb the most so that is the way to go with one

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You do need to try the ethernet still though :stuck_out_tongue:

Well the k50 has an ethernet output called “Direct Out” which is made to be used to send off to other streamers/renderers and is supposed to be higher quality than just a network in, so I will have to try that now. Still not sure how it works though’

Edit: actually wait, @Polygonhell you can test that for yourself when your pacific comes in you filthy roon user, I don’t want to mess around with it if I don’t have to lol

And what are you going to do if I tell you it’s better?

Eat my words probably if it actually is

Another thread i don’t want to read anymore. Nope, i’m plugging my ears now that the words ethernet and cat8 etc. came out….lalalala, sounds like my audio crack dealer all over again, barely a year after i told him nope no more too😜

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Would love to have you over again in October if you’re in town :wink:
Lol sorry not sorry

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Damn this K50 lol, I really don’t have much more to say about it. It does pretty much what Veritas has said, stark increase in technical ability with a more natural presentation to boot, really substantial upgrade, larger than any tube or cable change I could have made, in fact enough to say that it seems like the dac changed overall which really is something. I was surprised it was this large of a difference when I thought I already had a pretty good digital backbone, but I guess not lol. The lampi does really sound better via usb, but surprisingly the previous ddc solution I was using kept up a bit when I used the totaldac, but the antipodes was just a clear step ahead when it came to the pacific and still ahead with the totaldac.

The real test is the auralic ares + leo stack I have in the living room, so I had pulled that over here in advance. Now I don’t have too much time in a comparison and am still acclimating so it’s pretty subject to change, but the auralic gets close in resolution potentially, but the k50 is just so much better at presenting that resolution than the auralic, the auralic almost sounds somewhat grainy with more glare in the treble as well which is weird (didn’t notice this until I got the k50 lol), overall the k50 is a big step in other aspects besides resolution, so still def worth in my case. And this is with like a day’s worth of listening time on it lol.

I guess if I had to note some standouts compared to my other previous digital setups (like the totaldac ddc + ideon reclocker or the dcs network bridge)

  • Blacker background
  • Surprisingly more control especially in the bass
  • More resolution and nuance
  • Improved spatial recreation
  • Step forward for dynamics
  • More tonal density and richness, was not expecting this
  • A bit less relaxed than normal
  • Much more texture
  • Just more convincing overall

Basically things are much more involving and realistic, things jump out at me more, it’s easier to visualize everything, easier to basically fool yourself and to me that’s pretty much a win here so far

Setup was reasonable although with all the security I have on my home network it took some extra effort that was a bit irritating. The setup/settings web gui is easy enough to navigate and use when you get past the vagueness of it. Using squeeze server and it has no issues, sound great, haven’t tried any other format though. DSD was a bit of a hassle to get going for some reason but now it seems like it works without issue, playing natively from what I can tell (sounds amazing too)

I do find a difference between playing back via a network vs playing back locally from the server, pulling from my network drive currently results in a bit more hazy and smoothed over sound, where directly feels more defined and immediate if that makes sense. It’s still great playing over a network, but it really does sound better enough to justify putting local music on it imo, so I’ll have to figure out an easy way to cycle what’s on the server from month to month. I do have to wonder if I start getting into the higher end audio networking gear if that will improve the performance of pulling from a server, but I’m not really sure and not interested in finding out for now (but I will later for sure)

I briefly tried some power cable swaps and it does improve overall with a nicer cable, the nicer power cables tend to bring more solidity and stronger foundation to the sound here, so worthwhile doing in this case. I’m using usb here since the pacific likes that better and ofc the cable quality matters and is pretty substantial in my case (ymmv, same with the power). I’ve yet to try any fancy network cables and switches given my past experiences with them, but I’ll have to try that since I have some on loan, but I would like to acclimate myself to the server first before I do anything.

I really wasn’t expecting such a jump given what I already had, but this did that for sure lol, hard to not recommend this to anyone who has a pretty high end dac and want’s to really get the most of it. This is enough of a difference where I’ll honestly only want to be exclusively using this. I can’t justify another one of these for the living room so the auralic will have to stay, but I will be wishing I had another lol

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“A different difference.”

We all know that once your setup gets good enough, everything matters. Cables, fuses, vibration control, all of the shit that sounds snake oil ish. What difference do you hear though? (rhetorical)

When it comes to wanting a different sound/aspect/technicality, a different headphone, iem, or speaker and how it synergizes with the amp + dac will do that for you. A different signature. A different presentation.

Once you have found that signature and presentation you want, I believe that’s where we get the other differences. A server/streamer, a dac upgrade in the same line, cables, fuses, and isolation will enhance what you already like about your system.

This Antipodes is certainly not user friendly, but it did a lot to enhance the differences of my system. It look what I already liked about it: big presentation, engaging, sweet-sounding, room information, accurate imaging and took it up a few notches. Now instead, the stage wraps around me to be more holographic. There is more room information to feel more like a stage. The imaging is better where there are better outlines and less overlapping of instruments. Big upgrade. Couldn’t unhear after a short demo.

A different difference.

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My NS1 showed up, and I’ll start a different thread, but it’ll be much the same theme.
Can’t believe how much difference, inline with a DAC upgrade.
FWIW makes me wonder how much of what the MScaler adds to the Dave is just cleaning up the input signal, because it’s a different (much better) DAC with the NS1.

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Yooo nice lol, yeah with you on the can’t believe the differences side of things, a nice source is really substantial

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Have had the s30 for about a week now, and really enjoying it. An overall enhancement, I really can’t find any faults compared to not using it.

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Question here for everyone. Are the antipodes streamers able to be controlled over USB as a remote? Or do they require ethernet input if using local storage? I would like to bring my local library into work and was planning on just using a USB NAS or similar but I wasn’t sure if maybe I could combine my ddc and file storage into a single place while still using roon on my desktop (connected to the streamer over USB and not ethernet). Not a move ill make until I figure out my dac in a month or two but trying to get all the information and couldn’t find the answer to this one anywhere.

It does require you to be plugged into ethernet. That annoyed me at the beginning. I wanted to be 100% offline, but nope.

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