ZMF thread, Atticus / Aeolus / Eikon / Auteur / Verite / Verite Closed / Atrium

Hello,
I think the wood is really chic and suits him well.
I’ll have to remember that if it comes again :wink: .

Unfortunately, the Auteur is no longer available in the form if then only to get used.
Or wait for the update when it comes out around summer.

Have only used the Eikonpads once in the Burn in briefly and went back again.
I’ve read that some have spent a lot of money on pads and ended up going back to the Auteur pads and found it was a waste of time and money.
That’s why I focused on the essentials for now, locking the burn in and finding tubes in the drawer that fit.
Before I really start playing around with pads.
Then I will have a better impression of what the Auteur can do and where the deficits would be when changing pads.:wink:

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The stock Auteur Lambskin pads are obviously great on the Auteur. After trying quite a few pads, my two favorites are the Auteur Hybrid and Eikon Suede. The stock Auteur pads are a very close third, and the Eikon Lambskin are my least favorite. They are a little too bloated in the bass for me.

The one remaining pad I’d like to try is the Eikon Hybrid. I don’t think I’ve ever read any impressions of that pad from any Auteur owners. I may have to be the Guinea pig and see how they sound.

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Brooo yes. Eikon suede on the VC are great too! Although the tonal balance can be a bit unnatural after long term used!

So to expand more on my impressions article… (The ZMF Atrium: Old World Acoustics, New World Sound – Sonvs Apparatvs) …I want to touch on the changes the Atrium went through during the first 100 hours.

Out of the box I was so unimpressed with the Atrium. I thought to myself that either my ears are off or I had been tricked, biting hard into new product hype. I was going through my music library trying different tracks and genres but the headphones felt very condensed and flat in musicality and imaging. I was going to give up for the day and i decided try one more song “To The Top” by Scattle. And whoa!

I did not hear any audible pop or change but in the downtime between tracks SOMETHING changed. It came alive in ever sense of the word. The stage expanded and imaging become very 3D and holographic. There was also this precise, pin point placement of objects. One of the repeating sounds on the HD800s can be heard panning left and right on a set line, on the Atrium it was moving along a thin elongated oval track. You could hear it was traversing depth as well. Even if it was just a few inches of change it was still being conveyed. It was extremely tangible and I swear I could reach out and grab it. The bass woke up and started to physically rumble. Real deep tracks had the bass shaking the headphones. The stage wasnt fully expanded but it felt more “true” and there was probably too much of the room cues overlapping the main presentation, but this was my favorite stage of the break in. I went back to the tracks I previously thought were “flat” and they had new life. It had me thinking maybe I sell my other headphones, even the HD6xx.

Changes from here on decelerated with each hour passed. The stage seemed to get bigger and more open sounding. The room cues and echoes started to feel more natural and complimentary as opposed to trying to vie with/overtake the initial impulse of notes. Bass impact rounded out, and stepped a hair’s width away from high impact and quantity and went towards bloom, but stayed well mannered and not overstepping. Treble really tamed out and everything really smoothed out, like a lot of smoothing.

This smoothing helped make the headphones an easy non fatiguing listen, but texture, details, notes lost their defining outlines. And this is the biggest downside of the Atrium IMHO. Things ARE resolved but they blend in a bit too much for my liking. Details are harder to pick out and imaging lost that pin point placement and extremely 3d staging. While it never was on the same level detail wise, that repeating sound from “To the Top” now felt more in line with the HD800s, where before it was a full notch above. There is also the loss of tactility as the eased attack doesnt take enough of a defining stand, and the headphones arent the fastest so things meld a bit.

It is still a great headphone, 100% so. But it’s hard knowing how almost perfect it was (for my preferences) then to have it slowly drift away. I do have hope to get some of it back. I did buy a more open titan mesh to try, and have been suggested by Zach that you can even run it with no mesh if I am daring enough. And both should add some brightness. It will be seen if this will just be a bit more treble or if it reinstates a bit more clarity and sharpness as i think the latter will go quite far.

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Hey,
I read your report on the community page and thought it was really well written.
Definitely give the Atrium more time to settle in.
As I wrote about the Auteur, it needs a minimum of 200 hours before it arrives, but rather a bit more until it is fully there.
I have been running it daily in rhythm to achieve this relatively quickly.
Yesterday I had my first session with real tubes where I was totally flashed.
And I didn’t do anything except let it play and occasionally change the tubes.
So all the things I had written and criticised before were gone.

The other comment would be the Hd800s comparison, which of course spoiled you.
I’m going through this with the Lcd2C right now and listening to both I don’t see why the Lcd2C should leave me.
Still, strangely enough, I go for the Auteur.
There’s something in it that I can’t put into words at the moment, and I know the Lcd2C can’t do it.
I will try to listen to the Lcd2 instead of the Auteur before I use the Auteur again, maybe I will know more then.
At the moment both are not bad for me, as well as your Hd 800s and Atrium.

On another note, if I may, do you think the Bhc is the right partner for both headphones?
There’s always room for a tube amp.
Personally, I think the Bhc is a bit undersized.

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Deleeh kinda brings up a good point. I wonder if the BHC is also a bad pairing for the Atrium. Mostly because not just based on your description but based on others the Atrium seems like a very polite sounding headphone that trades detail etc for smoothness and the BHC to my recollection is fairly smooth. Not just smooth but a bit softer and fairly warm. (this is all assuming most of the listen in is on the BHC)

As someone to whom the VC was also borderline too polite but was able to rectify it with a tube swap (although unlique the bhc the WA8 is a bit less soft sounding and less laid back) I wonder if your opinion on the headphone can improve anymore if you get a different amplifier. A more neutral one, and in general a higher performing amplifier! I’m sure the Atrium will still have similiar characteristics with smoothness but you may find it perfect on a different amp.

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To be fair, the Aeolus is a very polite headphone as well and a ton of people like them on the BHC (I actually disliked the Aeolus on solid state amps). I think this is just a case of listener preference more than synergy.

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Yeah but maybe that’s what they are looking for. A more polite pairing with fun punch etc, but I feel like (I could be wrong but) Souldriver

Seems like these type of issues could be lessened of he uses a different more neutral amplifier with good precision etc. Afterall the tonal balance, cool staging that he already likes will probably only improve that way. While the BHC is probably overdoing it as a pairing.

Ah yeah sorry, I guess I didn’t mean synergy lol. Yeah I just meant his preference but also I really can’t imagine the BHC is helping its case for the Atrium.

Its just @Souldriver seems to be in the exact same situation I was before with the VC.

100% agree. I dont believe tube rolling would help much in this case either. Though if he wanted to try, a Telefunken ECC82 or even an Amperex or Siemens E80CC/6085 may be more along the lines of what he’s looking for.

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Yeah that’s what I’m thinking too!

Also @Souldriver I can totally loan u my Eikon Suede pads, before I did the tube swap on my WA8 I was using the Eikon Suede pads as the really balanced out the VC, added more air to the treble and generally made the listening experience closer to what I wanted.

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I preferred the Aeolus on SS to tubes for this reason, but it was still too relaxed for me.
It didn’t really undo the laid back ness, I haven’t heard the Atrium, but the ZMF house sound just skews that way (at least the 3 I owned), the Verite is the least laid back.
Some people love it, but it pretty much is what it is.

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Let me put it this way.
The BHC could probably limit the Atrium a bit and seems to be a bit suboptimal, I have the impression.
Which doesn’t have to be the case, as I don’t know the performance data of the BHC, but it also depends on whether it is standard or has had a mod such as capacitor replacement, for example, which brings it forward again.

It’s certainly not a bad amp, and it feeds the lower ZMF range quite well, as well as other headphones. But for an Atrium, Auteur, Verite I think it needs a bit more drive.
It’s amazing that he still uses a Sennheiser Hd800, even at 300 ohms. I’ve read positive things about it and some people swear by the BHC.
Why the Zmf might be lacking although they need relatively little current could also be due to the wood.
But according to Zach, this should no longer have so much influence.
But the Atrium is also quite new and there are no empirical values.

If it is financially feasible to try another tube amplifier, this would certainly bring clarity.
Or to be allowed to test one in a shop should be possible.
Just to find out more if I might be wrong.

I didn’t want to criticise the BHC or talk you into a new amplifier.
Reading between the lines, you can also read out a little bit of dissatisfaction and also a little bit of hope.
It is also clear that the stage of the Sennheiser is unsurpassed and no one has managed to get there yet.
As I said, it doesn’t necessarily have to be the BHC. Maybe a simple capacitor change will help the thing get back on its feet and the rest is history.
When I think of my Little Dot 1+ or Euforia, this was the right way to get more drive and of course to get more out of the tubes.
And the costs had been manageable except for the Euforia maybe, because I needed two per side or 4 because after TFTF the Odam came in which I had installed which had cost extra.
But it had been worth it instead of looking for another amplifier.
That’s why I think it might be a good idea to have a look at the BHC to see if the Atrium goes up in flames :-).

Briefly about the SS Amp,
My Auteur runs much worse on the SIngxer SDA2 Dac amp.
I have more growth on the Euforia, then comes the hybrid amplifier.
I would still have to play with tubes there.
But purely as an SS amp, it must be really good for the Zmf to blossom.
That can also cost money and is absolutely a matter of taste.

For my preference in amps for zmf:

Aeolus/Atticus: solid state or very clean tube, these really need good bite and energy, and a lot more control to tighten them up, most tube amps didn’t work well with these headphones

Auteur/Eikon: mostly warmer slightly relaxed tube, I just generally found these less flat and more engaging on most tube amps regardless of signature, although there were good more laid back and grand solid state amps that ran them too

Verite/Closed: could go either way but more preference toward tubes, at least warmer energetic ones for me imo

But really for any of them it will come down to the amp and chain at hand, hard to make broad generalizations

I bet the BHC is an enjoyable match with the Atrium if it’s like the auteur in driver, although it’s more almost described as a beefed up aeolus, in which case I can see something more tight, defined, and forward with bite being desired. I do think that from a technical level I can see the BHC being alright but you could probably do better if it’s a headphone meant to be somewhat similar technical level to the verite, there’s probably a fair bit more to be had with a better chain upgrade. But literally no experience with the atrium so can’t say of course

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Hmmm a lot of good discussion here but some clarity should help…

I dont think the BHC is under powered here. It doesnt have the normal cues of something that is. Weak bass, small stage, condensed and overall flat feeling, etc. There is also the fact these things were there on that chain early on, but either smoothed out with break in or i got hit hard with psychoacoustics.

As for tubes, do you guys think it will be beneficial to list those in the article’s equipment, I can go edit that in if you want. The main tube combo was Telefunken ECC82/12AU7 & Tungsol 6AS7G, I also worked in a Tungsol JTL-6189 12AU7WA (this one is actually searing bright unlistenable with the HD800S) and a JAN 6080WB (I don’t know the brand as the green ink came off in shipping). I am still hunting down a Tungsol and Mullard 6080 but not to aggressively. Overall the atrium was less responsive to tube changes than the 800. I know people can also be meh with the 800 on the BHC but I like it a ton.

There are those that have said that amps with better driver control do enhance things. I do have a “stronger amp” in the CMA800r, but I have been lacking the time to clean the space and reorganize enough to fit it in. The ECP walnut DAC is also supposed to be good for details, but the same thing with time.

How it sounds though, I think @Polygonhell hit it on the head. It just is how this ZMF sound is. It doesnt sound weak or anemic, it just sounds like the EQ on those frequencies were tuned down. I dont think a pad swap would do what I want, and the rest of the range doesnt need any touching. A cable / dac / amp change may help, but I think the best bet is swapping the mesh. When I bought the headphone i did buy the more open mesh so this is an easy swap, there is still that time that I am short of.

To also bolster my thoughts on this, and to be clear I do not think this should be used as anything beyond a quick litmus test, a lot of other reviewers with bigger better amps have also conveyed the same thoughts about the treble. I do not have and do not intend on buying things such as a DNA at this time. An ECP Ravenswood is appealing to me and is supposed to be great for ZMFs is on my list but they are rare and I am trying to cut back on buying. And the last thing on my list would be seeing what that decware/zmf collab ends up being. Ive been looking at Decs on and off and with how much I love the BHC it seems a very logical step up, price size and availability forgiving. I do really hope ZMF lends them some LTD woods for the chassis.

And to wrap up this post. I REALLY LIKE THE ATRIUM AND WHAT I AM HEARING. If it stayed at that 1hour break in i think the hd800s, lcd-24, maybe the HD6xx would be out the door. But there are criticisms based off my preferences (remember i used to sport ultrasones). Luckily I do think in this case, what is lacking for me is the perfect ticket for others.

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About the 6AS7G:
I can only speak for the Euforia, taking into account the Mundorf standard cap.
(For those who know, this is the white one with the red writing).
My experience was based on the fact that this tube family was very masking with the cap.
That’s why the owners of the Elise and Euforia’s are kicked right out and replaced with a 6080 tube.

Further to the 6AS7G, with the Odam cap the tube is clearly better, nothing masks anymore and plays more freely out of itself and especially the Svetlana can go really far into the low end that it can be perverse. And the overall sound is warmer, which is due to the cap.

Unfortunately I don’t know the 6AS7G Tungsol, I know that Tungsol made them as 6AS7G, there is also the 5998 but unfortunately quite expensive and both hard to find.
If you remember when you built the bottlehead what cap did you use standard or something else?
As I said, there is definitely room for improvement with the standard cap and it would also have the most effect.

About the 6080:
I once had the Jan 6080 Wb in a test amplifier and found it very listener-fatiguing and overall bright. didn’t suit the amplifier.

The 6080 Mullard is a warm tube in the typical British style, soft, gentle in the details and deep, so it plays very deep.
(I also have to mention the cap comparison,with the Mundorf the bass was missing,with the Odam there was much more punch and the details also seemed to sparkle more than with the Mundorf). Price a bit expensive but worth it.

6080 Sylvania similar to the Mullard, it has a bit more bite in the bass but doesn’t play down as low as the Mullard, so rather the opposite.
I have not tested it with the Vcap Mod. The price is good to get.

6080 Gec I have never had but it is supposed to be good, but also expensive and hard to find even as 6AS7G.

6080 General Electric can be worthwhile and worth a try. warm sound, somewhat thick due to the analogue. good forward direction, great bass response.
Can also be had at a reasonable price.
It worked very well with my Ebony Fostex before I sold it, because the tube is a bit slow, the wood obviously had more time to recover.

I still have a 6080 in my peto, but I won’t mention it because the price would rise too much. it is a Sleeper.
And a mix of Mullard and Slyvania, which I will only announce under Pn, :-).

Unfortunately I can’t say anything about the 12Au, but there are also very good ones.

To return briefly to the cap and then I won’t bring up the subject again.
The one from Bottlehead is adapted to it but not the end. (At that time it was the best) It is a construction kit that can be improved as needed. And it was also prioritised to be cheap.
There are caps made for tube amps as well as for SS amps, and there are also caps that are cheap and close to the high end.
It doesn’t have to be Vcaps or Audionote.Milfex or Duelund are also good caps as well as cheap and close.
The caps are definitely better than what is standard from manufacturers or included in the set. They keep the costs down.
My suggestion would be to check out the Crack Forum to see where all the cracks are located to help, even if it’s not an option, but help with the tubes.
And on Hifiguide there is also someone who builds them cleanly and offers mods for a surcharge.unfortunately I don’t remember the name.

I reckon that the Zmf amplifier as well as the Auteur will come at the end of summer or even at the beginning of autumn, because we are still suffering from the crisis.

It’s probably worth waiting to maybe make a decision by then.
In the end, it is your decision how to proceed.

My BHC is SB’ed with jensen caps and an audionote volume pot. Far from those $1k plus over the top builds, but it checks off what I need.
I also think this shows we have a great mix of minds here. Some are saying a bf2 → bhc is extremely appropriate, and others are pining to see what it does on higher end gear. I agree with both.

I mean, why not? The HD6xx is 300 ohms and it sounds amazing off a bhc.

Dissatisfaction because i know it was there! Hope because… I know it was there! The Senn stands up for sure, it is a totally different sound and concept as a whole.

Interesting, as i thought this came partially from the development of an auteur 2.0 that evolved into the Atrium. I have no other zmf history to compare any of this to.

100% agree and I think this is what @Deleeh and @Littledrummerboy are saying as well. But i am just not at the point where I currently have, or logically can or want to go higher. And tbh I am happy with this setup.

I also do have something to say about it’s positioning. Once again i have no other ZMF history (I was offered a VC but passed, just no time to adjust to two headphones) but in general this feels like a $2000 price point would be more appropriate. Even if it was $2k during that intro price period, and $2.2k normally (fancy woods and finishes aside) it would be more fitting. Something tells me technicalities wise the Verites are just better and a more true “TOTL”, and the co-TOTL is more marketing. There is also those things outside of sound that determine price, as i am sure the dampening system isnt the cheapest to produce. Also… Dat wood tho

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That is A_Jedi, he built mine. I had the kit sitting for over a year and realised as much as i love some solder jockeying, if i didn’t send it out it would never get built. I concentrated on the chassis and aesthetics.

Back when I was still active on hifiguides, I wrote 2 long posts with my extensive BHC tube rolling. In case anybody hasn’t seen it and is interested, the link is below.

https://forum.sonusapparatus.com/t/bottlehead-crack-an-appreciation-thread/227/4?u=hazi59

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I said that you could go higher end with source gear since it’s a flagship and so it could scale a decent bit (even if not as much as other flagships) however I as someone who is also not necessarily interested in putting down more money for higher end source gear I was mostly pointing out that you could look for something around the same price range of the bhc if needed but with a sound signature that might match the Atrium and your personal sound signature more. However if you also don’t really feel like doing thst it’s super understandable. In the long run you can probably also try the tube swapping route that Hazi recommended because it can help change the sound a fair bit!

Yeah I think it’s fair to say that zmf in general maybe aren’t as good at providing a good bang for buck ratio. It is worth noting though that it is made in the US by a small team, not particularly mass manufactured all the components are from local areas too and generally the headphones have a great tonal balance /good timbre which can’t be for everyone. Just depends on what you prioritize. Also yes! Beautiful wood lol.

I mostly wanted to give my input since I was in the same situation as you are essentially and it took some money, some work but I consider it worth it because the VC has an awesome spot for me after going through all the pad and source changes.

I have used this guide, can confirm it is a nice guide.

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