So, this is entirely hearsay from someone else (that had spring 2 l2, spring 3 kte, and may kte all side by side) but it seems like the spring 3 kte splits the difference between spring 2 and may. Something else to keep in mind is that the kte version of the spring 3 is the only one that gets the upgraded USB model and you honestly just realy want it. Fully galvanically isolated but more importantly it uses a PLL that basically makes it just jitter immune.
lol. I did the same thing with d8kp comming from LCD-R. Because LCD-R is so agro with its detail I thought it was lacking on d8kp for the first few hours. Then I had a good relaxed listening session and realized the d8kp is like a full tier above LCD-R (when its on jot at least) in terms of true resolution.
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Mind if I ask what can this was with?
Diana V2 and LCD-24 mostly
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and you have no had d8kp IIRC, correct? Im kinda curious if the Broadway will give me the punch I’m looking for with d8kp without loosing too much of the control I think it needs to clean up the treble
I ended up going with a Soekris dac2541 and Violectric V281. Very happy with how the Diana V2 sound on that chain.
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Yeah, I have not had/heard the D8kP, though I’d like to at some point. I’d say the Broadway has surprisingly good grip for being battery powered. The only amps I’ve heard that rival or exceed are the V281 and Formula S + Powerman. Can’t say from experience, but I’m pretty sure the Diana is more demanding than the D8kP for punch and control.
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Of all tbe headphones I bought and sold I only miss two. The D8KP and the Utopia.
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New to this forum and currently in the market for a new dac. My setup currently is Denafrips Pontus II → Formula S and Powerman → 1266 TC. I’m happy with the performance of the Pontus II as it’s more resolving and holographic than the ADI-2 that I used before. However I would like to buy a dac that’s around the same price as the Formula S and Powerman combo. With this new dac I’m hoping for something that has more precise imaging, better bass texture, and is more resolving.
Some dacs that I’ve considered are the following. Note I don’t really have a budget but am mostly considering things under 7000 USD with a few exceptions in the list below:
Holo May L2 or KTE
Bricasti M1 or M3
Schiit Yggy (if the new analog cards are released or the dac is upgraded)
Mytek Manhatten Roon Powered (when it’s released)
Rockna Wavelight
Audiobyte Hydra stack with Vox, Zap, and Hub
Sonnet Morpheus
XIAudio Sagra
I’d prefer to buy new but might consider getting something on the used market if it’s in good shape and can be had for a good price. Also I own HQPlayer but don’t really use it at the moment so when considering these dacs I am mostly interested in their performance without things like HQPlayer involved.
Would appreciate comments from anyone who’s heard these dacs or uses the Formula S and has a dac that they enjoy pairing with it.
I saw that there’s a thread for dac pairings with one of the XIAudio Broadway amps but decided to create a new thread as I think this amp is a step up and may benefit from different dac pairings although I haven’t heard the Broadway so can’t say for sure.
Thanks in advance and look forward to what everyone has to say.
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Right away, I’d suggest ruling out the Holo stuff and the yggy. While those are great dacs, they would have to be used single ended, and their single ended performance is lackluster compared to balanced
So generally you are looking for more bass texture and more precision and resolution. What other aspects would you like to focus on, and any general signature preference?
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Ok makes sense, I was wondering if pairing something like that with a single ended amp would be worthwhile or not. I suppose with the Pontus II I’m sort of causing the same problem as it’s a fully balanced dac and the Formula S can’t take full advantage of the balanced output of the dac.
Sound signature wise I like something neutral but with good body to it if that makes sense. I know I much prefer the sound signature of the Pontus compared to the more sterile / digital nature of the ADI-2. I don’t want something super warm though or smoothed over. I like to hear the details of the music even if I’m hearing more flaws with a dac upgrade.
The one thing that people mention with regards to the 1266 is getting a speaker like presentation and I don’t think I’ve found that yet. I’m not even sure it’s achievable but the closer I could get to that with a dac upgrade the better. When moving from the ADI-2 to the Pontus II the sound became more 3d and I heard more depth to the music. If I can increase that even more with a new dac that would be great.
I really don’t have much exposure to higher end components apart from what I have currently so it’s hard for me to imagine what exactly I can expect as I upgrade and hard to know for sure what aspects I want to focus on.
Hope this helps narrow my preferences down a bit. Also I mostly listen to electronic, jazz, rap, and some folk music.
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I think the issue isn’t balanced vs SE, but rather the RCA out on those two DACs specifically are meh.
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Sounds good
Honestly I don’t think I’d call the 1266 speaker like either, however it is very large and grand sounding, with a wide yet deep stage, pretty immersive. That could be improved with a better dac for sure
So I will mention a lampizator amber 3 right away, imo that has excellent synergy with your combo. Generally leans neutral slightly warmer, very organic, and more forward and fun. It’s on the wider and larger side of things stage wise, but is still very accurate in placement, with a very black background. Dynamically pretty alive overall, impressive macro and micro equally. It’s pretty resolving although it’s not in your face about it and presents pretty naturally. Timbre is very organic. It has great slam and impact, with impressive dac texture you might be looking for. The Baltic 3 is a step up overall but might be pushing what you might want to spend (but would be worthwhile imo)
Regarding the rockna, it’s a solid pick and I think it would do what you are after, generally neutral warm, slightly more relaxed, great for lower level information and nuance, lots of texture, wide stage with accurate placement and good control. A bit more microdynamic than macro but doesn’t disappoint in that regard either. Timbre is great as well. Honestly you could move up to the wavedream se with that budget and it would be worthwhile, although neither offer much discount used so that would be pushing the budget (but worthwhile). I’d skip the audiobyte stuff in favor for rockna.
Something else not mentioned possibly worth considering might be a aqua la voce s3. Generally more a clean signature, but very organic at the same time. Great technical ability with lots of resolution and precision, but presented in a natural way. Stage is reasonably sized but has lots of depth and accuracy as well, and it’s got well balanced tonal density. Lots of texture throughout, and leaning slightly soft but still has good impact and control. Would tilt things more neutral and no nonsense, but not in a bad way.
I think finding a used bricasti m1se or regular m1 would be pretty great, a technical beast but in a more relaxed and understated fashion, wide stage with very sharp placement, very organic, and good tonal density. But it is also pretty smooth, and while that smoothness isn’t overwhelming nor sacrificing any technical performance, I think it might tilt a tad too far than you are after. Also while bass has lots of texture and tight, it is a bit on the softer side of things there. The sonnet is somewhat like this but more micro focused, even softer, smaller but more deep stage, might not be what you are after, and not on the same technical level as the above
If you wanted to focus something much warmer and more fun (slightly overwhelming but very enjoyable nonetheless), a mojo mystique v3 or evo basic if you can swing it could be worth considering. It is extremely fun, tons of impact and slam while maintaining control, very large stage while still being reasonably accurate, great tonal density and richness, and surprisingly resolving and accurate at the same time. I just worry this will tilt more toward too warm and fun given what you are after, but it’s still an enjoyable pairing
I think the xi sagra could potentially be worth considering as it has a macro focus with real impact and slam, great bass texture, and lots of resolution, but I worry that it could tilt a bit too neutral clean for what you are after, and I also think while it would improve stage depth and precision, it might shrink size and grandness a bit. Also slightly leaner. I kinda would shy away from the myteks for the same reason but I haven’t heard the new ones yet (given they aren’t out so they could change lol). I also think this lags behind the rest in terms of performance.
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Thanks for the very detailed response, you’ve given me a lot to think about. Of the dacs you mentioned the Lampizator amber 3 or baltic 3 stand out as does the wavelight and m1. The m1 is a bit high price wise and with the softer bass may not be the best for what I’m after. I’ve also heard good things about the morpheus but based on what you said I think I should cross that off the list too.
Another dac I forgot to mention is the Terminator Plus. The only downside with the Denafrips dacs is the output Z is high and they don’t recommend using more than one output at a time due to a shared ground. These aren’t huge issues but it means the dac is less flexible so finding something that can adapt to changes in my setup is important too.
I’ll have to do some more research and see what I think about the dacs that stood out to me from your reply.
Thanks again for the detailed impressions of the dacs!
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So I’ve had a terminator ii + Gaia on hand, and personally I wouldn’t suggest it given it’s cost. I actually have a comparison of that vs an amber 3 which I can copy over from another forum
“Another good comparison I might make would be the lampizator amber 3, which I think would represent a warmer, thicker, more organic sound with good impact and bass/midrange performance. When it comes to stage, generally to me the amber can sound more immersive and involving stage wise than the denfrips, but the denafrips has sharper imaging, but the lampi lays things out more coherently and feels more coherent stage wise overall with more realistic placement. When it comes to low end, the amber is a slight bit softer (while I think the term has a bit too much hardness) but still digs as deep, hits with more control, and more texture than the denafrips. Timbre is better on the lampi overall, the midrange is sweeter and more dense on the lampi with less dryness than the terminator. Detail wise it might be on equal footing but I think the lack of microdynamics kills some of the lower level info on the term, which is not a problem for the lampi which has very good microdynamics, and almost as good macro as the term. In the treble the lampi does have a bit less extension and sparkle than the term, but has much better refinement and better smoothness while maintaining technical ability. Speed and separation wise the term does take it home here. Both have reasonably black backgrounds but neither really excel here, still edge to the lampi. Generally signature wise the lampi takes on a more neutral natural signature with a bit extra warmth than that, and the termi takes on a more clean and clear signature (but not with as much typical dryness or leanness that comes with that sig).”
I’ve got more impressions here as well
"So a few bulleted quick impressions so far with the terminator ii:
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NOS VS OS Slow (Sharp sucked, felt flat dynamically and spatially in comparison, and brittle in treble): So far, I actually like both. OS actually feels more capable with more accurate spatial recreation with a tad bit less width but much better depth, better control and command, more accurate attack and decay, separation improved, overall more forward, better dynamics, smoother treble. I think in NOS mode was overall more rich and relaxed (although not all that much more), tonal density was thicker, things were a bit more loose and chill and felt like they slammed more, stage wider but more vague, and also a bit more gritty and potentially jarring to me. OS is the way I’ve liked it more so far (unlike what I think about something like the ares ii)
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Pretty meaty but not overdone, good weight and body behind notes (but less warmth than I would expect that accompanies that)
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Bass has lots of impact and grunt, great control here without being too focused on being that way, so it does leave enough looseness to be fun.
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A bit of a macrodynamic focus without sacrificing a ton in microdynamics (but it sometimes is noticeable that it lacks there), big changes have lots of range and energy but smaller ones can get a bit lost and feel a bit more dull
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Nice smoothness in bass and midrange without losing that much definition and clarity, although below the lower mids clarity does take a slight hit
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Surprisingly sparkly treble and air, actually can get a bit edgy and gritty at times which isn’t something I was expecting. But it’s not on every recording, so depends there. But treble is likely the weakest aspect so far, feels somewhat inorganic and unrefined in comparison to other dacs at this price point (and kinda slightly dry)
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Signature to me feels more like a bit of a V almost (perhaps slightly warmer v, although I wouldn’t call this dac all that warm), which is pretty enjoyable. Midrange tends to focus more on lower mids rather than upper so perhaps that’s where I am getting the slight v impression.
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Speed and separation are very good
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Clarity is pretty nice despite it’s weight and thickness to notes, cleaner than I would have expected, although it feels slightly forced
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Texture is pretty nice specifically in the bass
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Stage background I’m a bit stuck on for now but I wouldn’t say it has the blackest background out there
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Overall organicness is… hm, not sure. You would think it sounds fairly organic, but there’s constantly something reminding me things feel off, like I don’t want to say exaggerated, but I have a feeling it’s something to do with the treble presentation, it just feels unnatural
Edit: I think OS mode ends up messing with coherency a bit and also might be separating things out a bit too much, and that might be what’s throwing me off. I think the dac sounds more connected and better liquidity with nos on, and it also takes on a bit more convincing tonality imo. But I do like the technical performance of OS a lot.
Edit 2: Hmmm, but NOS mode still does sound off anyways because of it’s more raw presentation that feels mechanical at times (and more technically unimpressive), so still liking OS more."
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Cool thing about the Form S/Powerman is that you can stack them side by side on top of a component width DAC if you want. 
If that matters to you. The black La Voce would at least look pretty good!
Christof, I have a Form S/Powerman and a Sagra on the way, so I’m watching this thread and your decision with much interest!!
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Awesome, am looking forward to your thoughts of this combo and specifically how you think the Sagra performs. I haven’t seen too many reviews of the sagra dac but the ones that I have read seem pretty positive.
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I have an ampsandsound black box xlr to rca converter if you happen to need one that I can recommend for its quality and use case. As I needed it for my form s as well.
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That’s generally the way to do it, but the only downside to that is added coloration, but it will let you get better performance even if you are converting to se. Although native se is still the most ideal imo (for dacs that don’t have limited se performance)
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I have the Formula S with the xlr inputs so am just going straight from the xlr out on the dac to xlr in on the Formula S. I took a look at the black box and it seems interesting but I don’t think I can use it as going rca to xlr is not allowed (I think) and my understanding is that the black box is intended for xlr to rca not another way round.
Edit: Per M0N’s point below about inputs going from rca to xlr this might actually be fine
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