Uhhhhhh never really thought of that but I think wa33 ran warmer? But really don’t know, that’s not something I thought about like ever until now lol
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How would he do that, there isn’t enough in those pictures to see, I read it as him interpreting the schematic. But if anyone really cares they should email woo and ask, and no one appears to have done that in either thread.
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Guy said he wanted to go public first, which is the exact opposite of what he should’ve done.
I am well well out of my depth here. That’s just how I read the thread. Will be currious to see woos repaonce on headfi. Either way, tbh, I don’t realy like the sound of their amps (wa23 being the exception) not do I care about topology so not changing my purchasing decisions. Will be interesting to get more info.
Frankly, I still don’t think that’s possible. Honestly, out of online opinions of shit, I find @M0N seems to write the stuff that mostly closely aligns to what I hear, but even still I’ve bought stuff that was a total flop because we use maybe 1 or 2 words differently that meant a piece of gear has a deal breaker attribute for me (13r sagra stack tbh). And I bought those having already heard maybe 4 amps in that range and 3 dacs. Tbh, I am fairly of the opinion that very few people in this hobby have the experience crossover with someone else who has heard the item they want to get an accurate judge of the sound before hearing it themselves.
ROFL. I am basing this judgment entierly off of how uncomfortably hot the volume knob was on each unit 
Meh, I get the idea. I do agree he should have emailed woo, but I do get it. A great example of this is golden one being jerked around by ifi over their non-sense power specs. As someone with 0 background I 100% would have bought their excuses without knowing better
Who said anything about accurate? 
I said steer in a direction… you get my point. Believing others and blind buying is easy to do but a big risk. Auditioning is hard to do but low risk. We do what we feel comfortable with and each have stories of how it worked amazingly well or surprisingly bad. Learning experience in both cases.
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wa33 elite is hot, 3es elite is a borderline fire hazard, especially the lower half
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Good to know lol, I always had the amps on a rack away from me and adjusted volume elsewhere in the chain at times, so never really paid attention to heat (also never actually owned a wa33 elite, only heard at friends houses and brief in home demo before I had the 3es)
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I will note the WA33 page specifically notes
- Fully balanced design, Push Pull, Class-A
The op-amp in the schematics would not be Class-A.
And the 3ES page does not.
It’s just an odd choice if the schematics for the 3ES are correct which they might be.
I also have email from woo confirming that the WA33 has output transformers, and I can’t see any in the 3ES pictures, just a pair of chokes, and what I assume are the power transformers.
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interesting comments on 3es
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It’s typical head-case stuff in that thread at this point. They literally shit on everything not designed by Gilmore.
I do find the whole looking at the cost of a specific component, and using that to judge value a bit specious. I did do a bit of research and I found another 300B cathode follower Electrostatic design, using in that case a discrete mosfet output stage.
And it seems using a SS stage for the final output is common on Electrostatic designs (which surprised me), the BHSE is also a hybrid.
So outside people assuming it was driven from the 300B’s I’m not sure what the fuss is about.
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So 3es is a hybrid but wa33 is not a hybrid…?
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Yes that’s my best guess.
I have an email from Woo that states the WA33 uses output transformers, which they would have no reason to do with a Hybrid.
It was a response to an unrelated question, about wax droppings under my amp, that didn’t even mention output transformers, so I doubt it was intentionally misleading.
It also implies that the PSU section has to be very different in the WA33, given the output transformers must be in the bottom box given the response on the WA33.
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It was confirmed at canjam that the 3ES uses an opamp for the output stage since the 300B aren’t strong enough on their own. That’s what was reported on HF from people who spoke to Jack Wu.
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BTW, speaking to Kerry, apparently the 3es, T2, GC, and bhse all use the same fundamental output stage design. He wasn’t sure how the viva did it but he sustepcted it wasn’t all tube. It’s seeming completely possible that z10e may be the only pure tube output on a decent energizer
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Still hard for me to explain why and it might change with more burn in but seems like the Susvara are pairing much better with the WA23 than the D8KP LE.
Not surprising though it also takes the HD650 to new heights.
I do think some tube rolling can sort the Final pairing too though. Interesting road ahead.
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Not sure I like the change from stock rectifier to RCA 5U4G. Took away some of the meat and warmth in favor of linearity and extension maybe?
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Yes the RCA generally will impart a more linear sound, generally less muddy, faster with better extension.
I don’t remember what the WA33 shipped with, I think it was a Soviet 5U4G equivalent that I really didn’t like.
But like so many things it depends what you are looking for.
If you don’t like the RCA, I’d stay away from the KR 5U4G tubes, they are very much in the same vain just better.
You probably also want to be careful with the Power tubes if you are looking to keep a lot of warmth, the stock Electro Harmonix, are very Mid/Bass forwards, and you’ll lose that with a lot of higher end replacements, again they tend to be more about extension and linearity, along with a boost in resolution. You may want to try some of the 300B like 2A3’s, they are basically a 300B in a 2A3 package with a 2.5V heater, they will likely continue to skew in that direction.
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If you haven’t used the rca in a bit, give it some time. I ve found that my few RCA tubes seemingly need a few days of use after being inactive for a few months to kinda fully come back online. That said, that may also just be a those specific tubes thing
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Oh nice that’s a good tip… I’ll give it a few days for sure but seems like my impressions fit how @Polygonhell describes them too. I think it has a different impact on the 33 vs the 23 since my expectations on how it should sound are different from each other.
@Polygonhell what do you think of Takatsuki or Elrog? Any other options you think of that’ll keep the sound? Those are expensive AF though… wonder what cheaper upgrade options are out there.
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Read too quick and thought you said they sounded different. Yah, makes sense to ignore them then