It’s quite annoying, cause they are there to showcase and sell their stuff, then why make their products sound like ass
I actually spoke to their global rep dude is using Lina + viva + HEKSE so at least they know what they are doing lol
And the problem is there’s only one dealer at that Canjam lol so if it weren’t for them I’d say it’s a complete waste of time (even with them there I might as well book a demo at their shop)
Hahaha. I think all of the other impressions i have heard were the dead oposite. The lampi → HF amp was trash but BHSE pulled some good weight. I guess ill just have to wait to hear both chains at canjam. Am trying to make time to go hear @sa11297 before then as well.
The fact that places just dont seem to bring good dacs kinda annoys me tbh. Like is it realy that much of an effort to at least throw a tt2 on the table along side your 10k+ amp+HP combo? I mean Kerry demos his 12k+ T2 using 009 and a base model sokeris dac. Like what?..
TBH having the P6P was a massive blessing last canjam I went to. Some places have legit sources but p6p is better than 90% of dacs that 5 figure amps were being shown on -.-
This is actuay a pretty solid combo (tried it at TSAV before I bought x9k). The dac is holding stuff back but the synergy with the pro in tube mode → BHSE is very very solid with a fairly liquid but holographic presentation. The detail levels are actualy also pretty solid for the price. Not that bad of a chain overall imo.
Oof. Not at canjam socal last year -.-
Even TSAV and Headpones.com used cheap dacs for almost everything. Only decent dac on teh table was dave → wa33 but they only thing that even did that chain vauge justice was utopia. Luckily I think I have convinced them to being the ayazi mk2 and weiss this year as well so that the WA23 and ES8 can have some propper sources behind them.
They really must have fucked something up there, but who knows. Could be the hfm amp, but I wouldn’t expect it to be that bad. Then again, it’s all show impressions so most are entirely hit or miss
I don’t even think it’s not having high end dacs, I think it’s just really poorly matching them or not feeding them with a good digital source or whatever, but they just don’t seem to put together meaningful chains most of the time. It’s either severely bottlenecked by the dac, or it’s a high end dac that’s poorly matched for the system or lacking a good digital source.
I don’t know, I didn’t really like the synergy of the bhse to the shang at all, I think it’s great with stax but a miss with hfm from my experience. And I honestly don’t like the pro idsd all that much either, it’s fine, but for that chain it should have been a lot better. Again that’s just me though.
Now I don’t feel bad I missed that one lol
Interesting, although to be fair it’s not like hpcom really offers that many nice dacs to be honest
I had just assumed the HF amp was dogshit when I heard those impressions tbh. The three of them all got to hear the setups after hours with no one around too. I dont always agree with their preferences (only one of them do my tastes line up with tbh) but I do at least trust them all to explain what they hear well.
I think its both. You dont need a horizon at the show but if every amp you have is hooked up to one of your 47 ADI2s you are doing something wrong. Plus, just tbh, if I am demoing a 5 figure amp (viva, aic, T2, or even just BHSE) I seriously dont want to hear it on a 1k (or even sub 1k) dac. Just show me you but some thought into it man…
Still havent heard shang so I cant comment on that but wit x9k it was nice. Made a thicker laid back sound. At least it was a chain that i felt was thought through even if not what I wanted from the can (and a step below where I think you should go for them as well). It ended up working best with 009 (non-s) though. Got that massive 009 stage but realy toned down the trebble. TBH of the estat chains ive hear, it was one of the most balanced setups. I like the tonality of my 007tii more (both off p6p and weiss) but 007tii has just fucking 0 bass at all
It was an awesome experience given where I was in teh hoby at the time but yah, nothing there noteworthy with how deep you are. That said, are there honestly any shows that go deep enough to interest you anymore? I am already getting to the point where shows dont reay interest me outside of a few very specific items that will be there and I would much much rather just set up a quiet demo time with a dealer or get something in house.
Slightly skeptical here (for my own tastes at least). IMO every “new woo” I have heard (wa22 and wa33) really needed a thicker/more fun dac than weiss or dave tbh. The ayazi (and this is without the blackstar relocker, so idk how it is with it) is basicaly a baby weiss sound sig wise but just a bit flatter spacialy. IMO that sig doesnt work great with wa22 or wa33 since the only thing making the weiss work in that combo (for my tastest) is the obscene stage placement accuracy
Likely the case, I haven’t really spent much time with the hfm amp to be honest, only enough to know it wasn’t worth my consideration lol
Lol, yeah people really do like to use that dac
Yeah never understood that, if you are going to demo such equipment, don’t then bottleneck it for an arbitrary reason
I think all of this really just highlights the lack of care people put into the source these days
Makes sense. I totally agree it’s stellar with the 009 and would be one of my first picks for that headphone, and while not as good with the 007 it still is really solid. Still interested to hear the x9k. But with both the shang sr and jr (although jr was more palatable), wasn’t my jam, didn’t think it did them many favors
Also yeah the 007tii tonality is great, but just isn’t that technical and isn’t good on the bass front
Yeah, although they are more either private meets or 2ch shows where there’s commonly much more high end gear
Would agree, I really ended up leaning more toward the rich and slightly relaxed dacs (although as long as they weren’t too forward, forward ones worked well too, but they needed to be warmer leaning). I do think there are some pairings that while very neutral and clean are really awesome, but they are harder to find that balance than a warmer pairing
Interesting, I wonder if it would get a lot better with the reclocker
I was also impressed by the balance of everything there as well, but you have to like that more dry and forward sort of presentation for that to work out well
tbh I get people not putting care into sources. I didnt either when I started. But an amp manufacturer not putting thought into it? Are you kidding me? Headamp did a decent job with source (think they were running an MPD-8? but realy not sure about that. I didnt know much about high end dacs back then, but whatever it was, it was better than my p6p by a fair step even at show conditions) and so dud audeze (weiss 502) but I think that was it. Justin used 10 year old AK daps for all his amps (I know lots here dont like his amps but I still do seriously love the mogwai line), DCA had base model sokeris stuff with a ton of vintage higher end stuff (OG cavali LAu, RSA A10, and some other wild stuff IIRC), raal also used cheap shit dacs. It realy kind annoyed me more than it probably shoud have but yah…
You very seriously should. I still havent heard shang sr but if I had to peg it as another can it would be “009 with fixed tonality and propper bass”. At the very least its worth a listen just to see what its like. IMO the BHSE holds x9k back but tonaly its a good match and shold give you an idea. Technicaly x9k steps up in a pretty major way going off of AIC but the tonality and timbre are way worse unfortunately. Something on the smoother side like a Z10E also apparently works exceptionally and even has @DanMellinger considering the redundancy of sus (looking forward to hearing this chain)
I dont even have complaints about the technical ability. I find the staging and detail roughly BHSE level tbh. But holy shit does it lack bass. I mean it makes lambda sig and x9k have less slam than fully open SR1a…
Ok, thats fair. Yah. I am personaly much more ineteresed in private mini-meets at this point. Id be down for 2ch shows if there was a good way to try HPs on teh dacs there tbh
I am super currious how well the ma3 and wa33 would pair tbh. I cant tell if the slight richness and super liquidity of the ma3 would be the perfect compliment to wa33 or clash horibly with its presenattion.
TBH I am super currious about this as well. I’ve thought about getting the setup (would realy want it for <4k though) just to test it all out but I figure I should prioritize a dac with the sound sig I actualy want RN instead
Yah. Weiss → wa33 (base w/ JPS wiring and stock tubes, so not even anything nuts) is the most “true to life” setup ive heard in terms of timbre and stage placement but it felt like something id want to use a refrence not something to use to enjoy music
I’ve got a set of bravura in on demo and honestly I’m seriously impressed. It doesn’t compete with my sus chain (tbf the street price of that chain is 3x rrp of bravura though), but tbh, if you have under 10k to throw at a chain I think this makes a very serious value proposition.
Also, reading back through this thread, I’ve actualy gotten some alone time with a lot of the gear combos I was asking about so I’m going to go back and write down some of my own thoughts on the competition here
Yah, their color thing is annoying. Fwiw though, AFAIK, the real price of bravura is a fair shout below what would likely be a comparable 007a chain. That said, I haven’t heard 007a so I can’t realy comment. I will say that I would probanaly take bravura over Dave → bhse → 009s but that they are similar tiers overall
Does anyone have experience with the Bravura and the SR-007a and 007Mk2? Was wondering if the Bravura, while not scalable, would still be able to beat out a 007a/Mk2 when coupled with a KGSSHV and a comparable DAC. I know the Susvara and MySphere 3.2 can beat both when given the right chain, but I feel that, for the money, electrostatics win.
Would really come down to what you consider a comparable dac. Honestly with something on the level of let’s say amber/la voce s3/wavelight/alpha 2 (some of which could be had around 2.5k) would likely outperform the bravura in a far amount of aspects. That could be put together for close enough to the same ish price of a new bravura.
I feel like with more of the entry high end dacs like a solaris or yggy or qutest it would likely trade a lot of blows
I think if you stuck with more midrange dacs like bf2/ares ii/2541 the bravura absolutely would be the better pick.
But it all really depends on what you’re after, the bravura vs 007 regardless of chain is a pretty different experience and focus
I think if you’re after value, I agree that the susvara should be out of the equation, but you could replace it with a hekse and that with a good chain also competes with the bravura even potentially with good value if you get some nice used deals. Despite how picky the mysphere is, with how cheap they go for used, and having a lot of options to play with amplifier wise depending on the version you could go for (both of which hover around 2.5k ish used, unless you get something crazy like @Draaly’s deals lol), I think they could also win for the money. Again though, very different headphone, and would all come down to what you want sound wise. I feel similarly about something like the og utopia being a really good value despite being very picky, there’s still options you can get to make it work really well at lower budgets
Estats are something that I feel as though they’re much more hit or miss when it comes to potential value depending on the person. If you really like the sound stats have, they’re going to be excellent value, if you aren’t as partial to it, you’re not going to see the value there lol, more polarizing than some other headphones in general imo. Personally can appreciate them, but also have personally soured on them as well after owning a few long term (weren’t as long term satisfying for me).
Aperio is very capable and actually very engaging and fun. I think @M0N’s impressions and shit list description set me to think something quite different than what I heard.
I haven’t tested the internal DAC yet as it was fed by my K50/WD Sig front end. I want to test the preamp too.
I’m not convinced it’s worth the asking price, my Susvara/AIC10 is giving it a fair fight (at least from enjoyability, didn’t do much critical listening or ABing technicalities tonight). I’m also quite sure you can build a better sounding system around the Stax X900.
One thing’s for sure - it’s not comfortable enough for how much it costs. Too much clamp. You get used to it but Susvara and X9K are significantly more comfortable. Build quality of the device though is top notch.
I think I really like it overall and am excited to spend more time with it
Oh wow, I thought the Bravura was better than that from what I’ve seen about it. Good to know then since I’ve seen some deals for the 007a/Mk2 and KGSSHV that would be cheaper than the Bravura, and since I was already considering those DACs, this sounds like a no brainer.
This would have been the smart play… if I wasn’t cursed with the knowledge that there are better systems out there. Knowing my dumbass, even if I ended up liking the sound of the Bravura on my Ares II and BF2 better than all of my other headphones, I’d continue purchasing more and more. It really looks like the Susvara (or that crazy $1500 deal on the MySphere 3.2) are my only options if I want to just stick with a single system and be happy for the rest of my life. Though I’ll probably still end up getting the 007 just to try it out and see how it compares to my 1980s Stax SRD-7SB Lambda earspeakers.
This is just my take on it, I did get to demo a bravura but it was limited, I’m more drawing experience from when I owned the Sonoma M1 system as well. It’s a very technically capable system, but in the long term I personally preferred the systems with a more capable digital frontend. Really what’s happening is you’re just hitting a point where the internal dac falls short inside the bravura. And while you can feed a better dac to it, I think it doesn’t really scale as well as it should vs other systems (this is also an issue with the aperio to a lesser extent imo)
The bravura as an all in one system is awesome, and for used value if you can get them around 3.5k or lower they can be really great bang for buck. But if you compare a 5-6k ish used system with a 007 and kgsshv with the rest of the budget going to the dac to the bravura, I personally feel that there’s more to be had there.
Again though, both pretty different headphones regardless. Overall the 007 are more relaxed than the warwick, warmer, they’re more rounded, less extended, more spatially deep and involving but less grand than the warwick, more micro focused than the warwick, and personally I feel they’re better weighted. The warwick is just a different overall experience being more forward, cleaner overall, better extended on both ends, less sweet, more spatially average, speedier possibly, almost a bit more macro focus at times, and so on. The challenge with the comparison really depends on how far you take the 007 when it comes to scaling, you give it enough dac and it can outperform the warwick in resolving power and bolster it’s strengths to where you might feel it’s just improved over the bravura. But if you keep it a bit capped with lower end dacs on the 007 chain, the bravura is going to offer a more overall technical experience aside from the preferences in signature and presentation (although I still feel like stage is lackluster for the range)
So really the question becomes how far are you willing to take the dac for the 007, and that’s imo going to determine which headphone system really would come out on top for me personally
That’s just another more obvious advantage to not going bravura, you’re going to have a lot more flexibility in the future to try stuff or change the chain if you don’t like it that much or want to move to something different, where you have less ability to do that with the bravura