Supratek Cabernet DHT / Grange / Cortese / Chardonnay / ETC

Sovrce Gear
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I know you follow @NickMimi antics, but one of the reasons he bumps into a lot of magic is because he tries a lot of different combinations. There are some abberations too.

I had an opportunity to try some open baffles in my room, they were the Pure Audio Project but an older pair with the 10" woofers and the 5" Voxativ driver. I thought it was going to work great. Higher efficiency, small enough to fit my 10 X 12 room… and they were horrible. Absolutely horrible. What I later came to find out was that they were much lower impedance and for some reason they just had absolutely no detail in the bottom end. It was like sitting at a traffic light behind a Honda Civic with tinted windows and a huge wing on the trunk lid. That kind of bass level and detail.

You just won’t know until you try.

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True, very true. I try to make that clear when possible. Not everything works together or sounds great :person_shrugging:

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Regarding the Melz, I largely concur with your impressions. I recently received mine (metal brackets but smooth grey plate) and have been listening to it in the Mogwai. Clean, clear, transparent, open are words that come to mind. I really like it actually. However, it’s not the fullest sounding nor the bassiest tube, for sure. It’s a little light in those areas. But I’m finding I can appreciate it for what it does bring to the table. It’s a great tube (or pair) to have.

I found another one recently with metal brackets AND the holes in the plates for a pretty good price, so it’s on its way to me now. I’ll compare them once it arrives

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That’s great to hear you are enjoying the Melz tube. I hope the one with the 5 holes bring you the bass you are looking for, because I really enjoy what the Melz 1578 bass brings to my setup. Especially in my speaker setup with an overall cleaner sounding bass with a nice slam for me. It doesn’t have the bloom like other tubes that I do enjoy for some tracks, but for a lot of modern songs and track, I enjoyed them using the Melz 1578.

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I simply took the more experienced tube rollers at their word and a long while ago found some NOS 1958 Meltz tubes still sealed in their boxes. I paid a premium, cracked the seals, inserted the tubes in my Baltic3 DAC and just never looked back. I have them paired with a known rectifier, the USAF 596 with adapters made by WOO audio and i have had nothing but great experiences and pleasure from this DAC along with my pairing it exclusively to my Innuos Zenith mk3 streamer. Sometime you just gotta leave a well tuned equipment pairing alone and simply enjoy what it provides. :hugs:
Congratulations to you both on your journey, very nice componets you have worked hard to maximize. :+1:

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That would be nice if it did. The one I’m using now was NOS so still might need some break in, we’ll see. I’m pretty stoked to have another one on the way. Will be interesting to compare them.

Interested in this tube as well. I could use it in both pieces of gear I own. Ugh, tubes! So many… just need a limitless budget!

Thanks, very true! And true of us all here, I’d reckon :slightly_smiling_face::notes::+1:

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Intro For Trying The Wathen Cryotone 5U4G-WC Tube

Man I hate this hobby sometimes LOL

1 tube really makes all the difference in an audio system. That’s really annoying to think about when you are trying to “perfect” your audio system, so you gotta nail down and know every part of the audio system to see what is contributing what to the sound. I am not even that far enough in my audio journey to even think about cables or power source yet…

Usually, I want to give a week minimum before saying my impression, but the difference was big enough that even my ears could figure it out right off the gate. I also wanted to share right now because I am pretty excited about this tube and the next post won’t be for a long while. I only listened to my new Wathen Cryotone 5U4G tube today from 10 AM - 8:55ish PM. I took about 3 breaks, going to lowes for some DIY parts, waiting 1 hour to swap Wathen Cryotone 5U4G to RCA 5U4G, and the last break hour to swap the RCA back to the Wathen Cryotone rectifier tube. I ate during the breaks too. I spent most of the time with the Mysphere 3.2 because that headphone is just too freaking good.

System:
ROON Rock - Intel NUC 7i7 > EMM Labs NS1 > [Silver Sonic D-110 AES] Mojo Audio Mystique EVO B4B 21 > [Anticables 6.2 RCA] Custom 45 Supratek Cabernet DHT > [Allnic Mu-7R XLR] Allnic HPA-5000XL > Mysphere 3.2, Onkyo A800, and Atrium Closed Olive LTD

Current Tubes Used In Custom 45 Supratek Cabernet DHT Preamp: (2) RCA Radiotron UX-245 Tube, (2) Melz 1578 Tube, (2) RCA 6L6GC Tube, and (1) Wathen Cryotone 5U4G-WC Tube

The previous rectifier tube and the only experience I have with the rectifier tube in my system is the old RCA 5U4G tube.

How It Sounds In My Setup And Gear

The Cryotone 5U4G tube brings vocal clarity to the next level in my setup. It also “brighten” up my audio chain adding more edge and sparkle to the tracks which is what I wanted as I was complaining that was lost in my system ever since I removed the EML 45s Mesh from my system. My system was missing some excitement in the music, especially with the electric guitar when I made the switch from EML 45 Mesh to UX-245. Now with the Cryotone 5U4G, I got that edge and bite to the electric guitar that I really enjoyed before while still retaining all that midrange goodness that the UX-245 provides. My system is a win-win for me now, woohoo!

With the Mysphere 3.2 and Onkyo A800, I thought the new system was perfect with those 2 headphones, especially the Mysphere 3.2. Man… the Mysphere 3.2 just can’t stop getting better and I get soooo amazed every time I level up my chain and see how the Mysphere 3.2 just continue breaking my expectations of how good music can sound on a headphone setup.

With the Mysphere 3.2 in my setup… the clarity and dynamics remind me of my Platimon Speaker completely toe in. If you are not familiar with my Platimon posts adventure, toeing in the speakers with the drivers completely directed to my ears let the speakers play more and the room play less of a role. It sacrifices soundstage, but the immense clarity and overall technicality is there with my Platimon speaker. Right now, I stop toeing the Platimon in because I love the 3D soundstage speakers can do, but I have to fix reflections and stuff to get the immense clarity I had with the Platimon. With the Mysphere 3.2 in this current setup, it have the immense clarity I was looking for in my headphone setup, but not the laser focus imaging. Still, I know I am parroting the same thing everytime I upgrade my system, but man the Mysphere 3.2 sounds so amazing to me right now. It’s always hard to imagine the next step until you finally get to hear it.

Nothing much to say about the Onkyo A800 besides its the best I ever heard it, which brings me back to the Mysphere 3.2 point where I will just end up parroting what I always previous said. I feel like there is a little more mid-bass slam, but I have been swapping from the Mysphere 3.2 and Atrium closed to the Onkyo A800 and Onkyo A800 still does bass slam the way I like it that no other headphone that I tried really does for me. I didn’t talked about it in the Mysphere 3.2 paragraph, but I feel like the soundstage depth gotten better. I also want to say there is more presence and air in the Mysphere 3.2 and Onkyo A800 which is really awesome for the Onkyo A800 since I never really heard it like that in a long listening session.

With the ZMF Atrium Closed (Caldera Suede Perf pad), the added brightness was too much of a good thing. The increase of brightness to my system made the ZMF Atrium Closed a little intense to listen to. The highs got a little too harsh for me where cymbals were too distracting for me. Female vocals singing high notes also had little too much edge. Choral music and male vocals were fine, it just female vocals singing high notes got a little intense with the AC with the Wathen Cryotone 5U4G tube. With the RCA 5U4G tube it was more tolerable. When I switch to the Bokeh Suede pad (or Caldera top perf pad if they do change the name), I liked it more when using it with the Wathen Cryotone 5U4G tube. Highs were still a little intense, but with the increase in bass, it balance the sound out more for me making the AC enjoyable in this setup. I think I will probably just stick with the Bokeh Suede top perf pad as my permanent pad for now on the AC since I want to keep the Wathen Cryotone 5U4G in this setup. Besides the increase brightness, there is a good pro with the AC + Wathen Cryotone 5U4G tube which is this is the highest midrange clarity I was able to get the AC to sound and it’s really nice.

Conclusion

Again, its only been a day, but if you have bright headphones or speakers or if your audio system is just bright in general, this tube might get a little intense.

Don’t know when the next post is, but I will try to remember to report back. Usually, tubes take about 100 hours or so to break in. I remember the Youtube video that influenced me to try this tube said he didn’t need break in and the tube remained the same throughout his usage. I hope it’s true because I like the way it sounds on my audio setup currently. I haven’t tried my speaker setup since today was only focused on headphones. Excited and hopeful to try this out on the Platimon!

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Cool. Sounds like potentially a good tube to have on hand in the right situations. I’m interested in your impressions a week or so out once the tube (and your brain) settles in and you get used to its sound. Nice to hear it’s gelling so far and giving you some welcome attributes.

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  • I have some new set of 1st world problems to worry about now…

My current system, I can’t express how happy I am about it. Treating the 1st reflection gave me the results I was looking for and pretty much exceeded my expectations. Basically, it allows me to hear more of my system vs hearing the room. My 2 equipment, the Mon Acoustic Platimon VC 1 speaker and Orchard Audio Starkrimson Ultra 2.0 power amp are very transparent and revealing equipment that allows me to hear my system more while they just provide me music to my ears. The Mon Acoustic Platimon VC 1 speaker and Orchard Audio Starkrimson Ultra 2.0 power amp are also detail monsters, so I don’t have to worry about hearing more details or layering in my system. So all my secret sauce is mainly up to my preamp (Supratek Cabernet DHT) and my DAC (Mojo Audio Mystique Evo B4B 21) in my audio chain. What I am mainly focusing on in my preamp is the changes of midrange in my system. I do look at the other changes, but midrange is my main priority for now.

  • Here is where the dilemma kicks in.

I collected enough variety of tubes where I can transform the midrange in my system to pretty much sound like 2 different system to me. I have guests staying over for a week, so I want to impress them with my new audio system like I do every year. I didn’t get to spend too much time getting adjusted to the new changes in the room, but I basically tube rolled 4 times in my system today because I had a really hard time picking just one set of tubes to stay with. I keep getting “wowed” every time I tube roll.

I only spent like a week on the PSvane 2A3 and Wathen Cryotone 5U4G-WC tubes. The Melz 1578, I spent almost a month with this tube. When I remove a tube from my system, I feel like I can instantly tell something is missing, but it always takes me a while to know what is being added in exchange.

This is my random BS thought process that I am just typing out loud because I want to get this off my chest. Every time I remove an RCA tube from my chain, I get more clarity. But, in exchange, I lose more of that classic RCA tonality. The classic RCA lush, rich, and warm sound just slowly goes away from my chain and I can’t help but think in the back of my mind that something is missing. But the other part of my brain keeps getting impressed by the extra level of clarity and dynamics being brought to the table by the other tubes like the Melz 1578 and Wathen Cryotone 5U4G-WC.

  • Here is my game plan

This is basically clarity vs tonality for my system. Logic vs Feeling.

These tube sets maximize clarity, detail, and dynamics in my system:
(2) Psvane Horizon 2A3-AT, (2) Melz 1578, (2) RCA 6L6GC, and (1) Wathen Cryotone 5U4G-WC

^A Side Note: I will probably purchase a pair of Wathen Cryotone 6L6GC-WC Silver Tube in the future just to see what happens if I get rid of the final vintage RCA in my chain.

These tube set maximizes the classic RCA tonality where it brings a lush, rich, and warm sound to my music. It makes vocals, strings, and anything that lives in the midrange will come to life with these tubes. An all RCA classic is truly a special combination.
(2) RCA UX-245, (2) RCA VT-231, (2) RCA 6L6GC, (1) RCA 5U4G

Another food for thought on a third set of tubes to try in my system:
(2) RCA UX-245, (2) RCA VT-231, (2) Wathen Cryotone 6L6GC-WC Silver (If I get it), (1) Wathen Cryotone 5U4G-WC

^Maybe I can combine the best of both world like this? There are plenty of other way I can mix and match. But I do like the idea where 1 chassis is all classic RCA tubes and the other chassis is all Wathen Cryotone tubes.

  • That is my thought out loud on how I will continue to experiment on my system for my Cabernet DHT preamp

Obviously, 1 week is way too early to judge anything. I do want to stick with that 250 hour rule to let the PSvane horizon 2A3 tubes to burn in and then probably do a dramatic change on the entire tube set to RCA to see if I like it. A better and more expensive solution is to just get a 2nd tube preamp lol. That’s how much I really like these PSvane Horizon 2A3 tubes so far. I saw some comments that the PSvane tube burn in a little in the company before sending it over, but it’s only around 20 hours or so just to make sure it works. Really excited to hear what it sounds like once it’s fully settled in, the same goes for the Wathen Cryotone tubes.

I will say, a very early comparison on PSvane Horizon 2A3 vs RCA Radiotron UX-245 tubes, bass (specifically mid-bass), and midrange on the UX-245 is on another level to me. The UX-245 makes the mid-bass more noticeable in my tracks, especially with kick drums, and gives it more of that hard-hitting thump that I really like. I think because of how well the bass is on the RCA UX-245 tubes, the midrange sounds more “full body” sounding. Because the RCA UX-245 just provides more of that rich and lush sound, the RCA UX-245 just sounds much more natural sounding to my brain even though I feel like the PSvane has more of a clearer midrange. I will say besides a more clear midrange that the PSvane 2A3 provides, that width on the soundstage sounds like 2-3 feet wider to me on my current speaker system vs the RCA UX-245. When I did that quick comparison, it was on this tube set: (2) Melz 1578; (2) RCA 6L6GC; and (1) Wathen Cryotone 5U4G-WC. It’s an apple to orange comparison since they are two different tubes, but I thought it was worth mentioning since its an option for me in my Supratek Cabernet DHT.

So far 23 hours on the PSvane tubes, 227 hours more to go!

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For the life of me i can’t understand your issue? :thinking:
Depending on mood and genre swap around tubes and enjoy🤌

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I am a set it and forget it type of guy. I really like the level of clarity these new stock tubes are bringing to the table, but it’s hard to forget the tonality that these classic RCA tubes brought to my system for that entire year I had the Supratek which is one of the main reason I really like the Supratek preamp. I’m not too sure with myself if I prefer more clarity in my system or if I stick with the RCA classic that made me like my system a lot in the first place which makes this frustrating to me. Thinking about my indecisiveness makes my head spin. Once I know myself better, it’s probably a lot easier to decide.

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Stick to one for a while. Do you think about the other combo more than what is in there now? Swap back, see if you think about the other combo more. Lets your heart decide, it doesnt need to be difficult.

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It’s like this for an example. I was listening to the album Microworlds by CloZee and it was fantastic with the 2A3 tubes. Then my mind wonder to listening to No God by Band Maid. Plugged that in and my mind just suddenly remembered how the drums sounded when I had the UX-245 in. It’s hard to enjoy different genre in the same listening session when one set of tubes does it better than the other.

Turning the preamp on/off a lot of times in the day is something I want to avoid. Most days I always limit myself to 2 times a day max unless I’m experimenting like the last session.

Add on: I guess my issue is because I’m getting into a variety of music, my taste is just too random. Hearing things at a higher level made me more picky. It’s a first world problem, so I will just probably decide a tube as I get more experience with other tubes.

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:face_with_peeking_eye: :grimacing: welcome to the club of audiophiles who can’t decide what they enjoy most. Eventually, some day in the future, you will eventually settle down. Until then, enjoy the journey! :hugs:

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Mick really thought of everything when he made the Supratek Cabernet DHT. There is a feature that the Supratek Cabernet DHT have that I always forget because I never use it, but will actually solve my dilemma. I always wonder why I would use the 6SN7 output when I can use the DHT output, now I got a reason why.

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I can use the 45 tube output for the vintage RCA sound and use the 6SN7 output for the Melz 1578 sound for a more clear midrange sound. It’s the best of both world!

All I need now top use the 6SN7 output is to buy that RCA to XLR converter since the Starkrimson amp can only take XLR.

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So after 3 months of Melz 1578, I thought I would try something new instead of the usual RCA VT-231. I bought these late 40s RCA Gray Glass 6SN7GT back in May, let’s go ahead and finally use them after months of neglect.

Current Supratek Cabernet DHT: (2) Psvane Horizon 2A3, (2) Late 40s RCA Grey Glass 6SN7GT, (2) RCA 6L6GC, (1) Wathen Cryotone 5U4G-WC

The below impression is only from my Mon Acoustic Platimon VC One speaker setup.

Going from the Melz 1578 to the late 40s RCA Grey Glass 6SN7GT, first thing that stood out is it sounded more “airy” and soundstage height sounds so free. Imaging sounds more solidify, especially for center stage. Pairing the Psvane Horizon 2A3 with the late 40s RCA Grey Glass 6SN7GT is really good combo especially if you like soundstage. Plus the vintage RCA tonality, is still there. The Psvane Horizon 2A3 still provides really good midrange clarity, but combining it with the vintage RCA tone, vocals sound scarily real. It’s not the last bit of clarity and detail of the Melz 1578, but I really like how more natural music sound on this current setup. I don’t want to say I’m glad the Melz 1578 died on me, but I will say I’m glad I got a reason to try the late 40s RCA 6SN7GT + Psvane Horizon 2A3 combo.

I think I am around 210 hours of the Psvane Horizon 2A3. 40 more hours and I will probably swap back to 45 tubes again. I think imma miss this soundstage and imaging the most from these 2A3 tubes, but I can’t wait to hear that 45 tube midrange again and go back to an almost all vintage RCA tube setup.

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QaSLu7m
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I finally got 250 hours done with the Psvane Horizon 2A3 tubes. To reward myself, I plugged my favorite 45 tubes back in, which is the RCA UX-245 tubes :heartpulse:. Man, those 45 globe tubes look so appealing to my eyes and they sound beautiful as well. I guess I’m just a 45-tube guy.

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The highest clarity I ever reached on my Supratek Cabernet DHT was the: (2) Psvane Horizon 2A3; (2) Melz 1578; (2) RCA 6L6GC; and (1) Wathen Cryotone 5U4G-WC Tube

Unfortunately, my Melz 1578 tube died on me a while back, but the late 40s RCA 6SN7GT did remind me how much I like classic RCA tubes. I tried Ken Rad VT-231 and they are pretty good too, but it just doesn’t have the same smooth tonality the classic RCA tubes provide. I swapped out the Psvane 2A3 with RCA UX-245 tubes and the midrange smoothness was otherworldly. But it came with a cost, the highs got harsh again. That’s when I realized the Psvane Horizon 2A3 tubes have a very forgiving highs while the RCA UX-245 is more detailed but not as forgiving. I’m getting the harsh highs mostly from the Wathen Cryotone 5U4G-WC Tube. The Wathen 5U4G is probably the best rectifier I used (I only used 2 different brand so far though…) to bring clarity to my system but at the cost of making the highs a little too harsh for me to listen to, especially in decently loud volume above 72db. It’s good at low-level listening though, but raising the volume exposes the harshness of the music. I don’t want to swap back to the Horizon 2A3 tube as the Wathen 5U4G played perfectly with it, but the 45 tube brings such uniqueness to my system that is really hard to replicate that I value that vintage 45 tube sound over maximum clarity. I looked for my RCA 5U4G to use with my 45 tube and… sigh, it’s dead (white spots in the inside).

I reached out to some community members and settled with the KR Audio 5U4G. I honestly wanted the more rare version KR RK 5U4G, but I don’t think I can’t wait that long for that tube to show up in the used market. So I bought the KR 5U4G. 1st impression after 2 hours of the tube settling in, it’s less clarity and detail compared to the Wathen 5U4G. But, the highs are no longer harsh and there is a sense of a stronger imaging on the KR 5U4G and layering sounds more amazing. After 2 hours in, clarity sounded better and the KR 5U4G sounded more settled in (overall resolution becomes more consistent), but I don’t think the midrange clarity is better than the Wathen 5U4G for now.

Right now I am experimenting with different 6SN7 tubes for my ideal combo with the RCA UX-245 tubes. I currently have 2 brand of 6SN7 tubes heading my way, 1 brand is a vintage 6SN7GTA tube and the other brand is a much more expensive new production tube. I went back to the RCA late 40s grey glass 6SN7GT tube and the midrange is too hazy for me when paired with the current system of (2) RCA UX-245, (2) RCA Grey Glass Late 40s 6SN7GT, (2) RCA 6L6GC, and (1) KR Audio 5U4G and the Supratek Cabernet have feedback disable. It did make my system overall more smoother and honestly sound more refine, but that haziness in the midrange is hard to get used to when I spent 3 months with high clarity on system. Looking forward on the KR 5U4G getting more hours of burn in and the 2 different brand 6SN7 tubes and what they will bring to my system.

(The only gear I used so far is the DCA Stealth, Onkyo A800, and Platimon VC One Speaker when going back to the 45-tube setup).

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