Is there a sound quality difference between the 3.5 and 4.4? I know the 4.4 offers more power but haven’t seen anything on this.
don’t have anything to use the 3.5 with so I don’t know, sorry
1 Like
I have to say based on the last few weeks of listening… Susvara on the AIC10 is the most fun Susvara I heard, but on the MK465 it’s the most real sounding Sus I heard.
Almost two years with Susvara as my reference (with a short break in the middle) and this headphone still knocks me out sometimes. So good…
15 Likes
There’s something so simple in 465 sound that it’s really a highlight of it for me… I don’t know how to describe it other than a humble presentation of the truth of whatever you’re playing, no flashy flavor and nothing really missing.
Susvara on 465 (Wavedream Signature, K50, DHC Chimera cables) sounds more real than any other amp I heard before.
I think my brain got used to the detail and transparency levels by now, and my system totally transcends me to wherever the music was recorded.
Now I just want to hear more headphones on it, not as much think of how to change any of the gear (diverted those thoughts to a second system lol)
11 Likes
Congratulations. It’s a wonderful feeling when you reach that point where one can just enjoy music.
Can you somehow describe the magnitude of these amp differences? Like is it comparing first class seats across 3 top airlines? Or are the differences so huge that you can’t live with one of the combos? (apologies that I’m asking you to describe something so subjective with a subjective question 
)
4 Likes
I can’t wrap my head around how good this full solid state chain sounds… and the thing keeping me from sticking only to it is the fact it doesn’t have tubes 
7 Likes
That’s how I feel about the mj3 lol
6 Likes
Got the Tungsten Double Sided back, might buy this pair if they impress enough. Using my Chimera cable instead of the stock Viking Weave.
18 Likes
So this week I sold both HM1 and, surprisingly I guess, the AIC10.
Selling the HM1 was an easier decision - it doesn’t perform as well as the other two. It wins on number of features price to performance but those weren’t a priority in picking my endgame amp.
As for what made me sell AIC10 - it came down to different roles gear can play in my small and limited collection. I could easily live with either 465 or AIC as my primary amp forever and be happy about it, I don’t miss anything when listening to either. As far as I’m concerned, while they don’t sound the same, they compete in the same tier (and above everything else I personally heard) and are still more similar than different.
And that’s the real issue.
They are too expensive each to make sense for me personally to keep both. I think 465 beats AIC on the solid state stuff and if you want to dial up the “tubeness” in your chain it’s probably better to look elsewhere than AIC. I do intend on having tubes here and my thought is that I could achieve a better two amp collection with 465 and another tube amp over AIC and something. If I had to pick only one amp, it would probably be AIC for the flexibility with tube rolling and speakers too.
There’s also a smaller detail that might never matter but 465 supports European voltage and there’s a chance we will move back to Israel in the next couple of years and that will make my life easier taking it with me. AIC will need to be sent back to Riviera to Italy to get the transformers changed and sent back here which is risky and expensive.
On a sound quality level I don’t think I’m missing anything by sticking to 465, it’s more about picking a house sound. For headphones listening and my electronic music this might actually be a better fit.
I always said that the Riviera tuning is what I think about when I think speakers, I’d love to own a Levante (or separates if I’m lucky) at some point when I can have a serious 2ch setup. They will be the first on my list for any serious amplification when I can think about TOTL investments in 2ch.
Although AIC is flexible in being able to drive high sensitivity speakers, it does have limited power and that would play a bigger role than it should in building a speakers system. It is first and foremost a headphone amplifier.
It’s hard to let it go - it sounds amazing, it’s built like nothing else I ever owned, it can tube roll and respond well to it, it can drive speakers, did I say it sounds amazing? - but I’m keeping what I consider is the other top contender for #1 spot headphones amp available today, and the plan was to pick one of the two (three if you consider HM1) and that’s what I did.
If I had an offer for 465 maybe I’d convince myself something else, but honestly I doubt it. I’ll always be able to buy another AIC, can’t say that for sure about 465.
I’m now with a fully solid state chain:
K50 → Tubulus I2S → Wavedream Signature → DHC Chimera XLRs → 465 → DHC Chimera → Susvara.
It feels weird to not have tubes at all, and I’m missing a speakers amp for some days that I want to test things. I guess that would be the goal for 2024, figure out if and what’s missing.
I’m definitely researching tube amps now, I want to have something but not willing to invest TOTL prices in it.
Feels good to have focus, and feels even better listening to my system!
22 Likes
Wow very unexpected and a very thoughtful decision. Good for you man 
3 Likes
Its nice that it can drive susvara having only 3.8watts into 32ohms.
So the voltage is automatic and you don’t need to change the fuse to run Eu vs Us like the enleum?
1 Like
If you’re willing to compromise on not having TOTL, there is A LOT of money to be saved. Good for you.
2 Likes
It was sort of expected but surprising nevertheless. My bets were on the AIC though.
A tube pre-amp perhaps that you can use with the 465 and your future speaker amp?
2 Likes
Don’t even require the high gain, easily drive Sus on medium gain around noon on the pot. It also drives Tungsten and the hard to drive DCAs with ease. It’s also quiet and excellent with IEMs on low gain, it’s kinda wild.
Just need a different plug on the power cable for the wall and that’s it.
Yep these sales allow me to build many potential systems on different levels and different number of components and still save money back which is nice.
Highest on my list for tubes for headphones at the moment is the diy Aegis that ZMF is going to commercialize in the next few months. Maybe a WA23 again although I doubt it.
I want a second system (or at least amp) that brings something unique and a flavor that I’d want once in a while and don’t turn on often so it has something special going on for it. I’ll need a headphone for that that isn’t Susvara (probably Diana MR or Atrium or a estat).
And that’s if I don’t go invest in the analog chain or some speakers, that’s always an idea that might turn to reality.
465 doesn’t really need a tube pre, it’s already very holographic and analog sounding and honestly the best timbre and realism I ever heard. I want to try perhaps another tube DAC with it but don’t think a pre is the right move here.
3 Likes
that 3.2W is at 0.5% TDH, RMS. If reported like most amps do (1% THD for however many us) it would likey be in the teens
3 Likes
… and extra bonus, you sold it to a fellow Sonus member!! 
11 Likes
The Japanese always win in the end (kidding of course). Bet that would sound phenomenal on a yammy!
4 Likes
haha. i was wondering if it was you. I hope you enjoy it! Its such an amazing amp that it basicaly killed my desire to ever even look for more.
3 Likes
Pretty much agree. There are still a couple of amps that I’d like to hear, but as far as looking for something to upgrade to? There is just neither a need or desire. Now it’s a matter of spending the time slowly rolling tubes until I find the ones I like and finishing the rest of the chain. Congrats @keithc, may it bring you many years of joy.
5 Likes
A few quick thoughts:
- SourcePoint 10 so far is a little to bright for me. While I’d probably be ok with it’s tuning with headphones, I have a much warmer preference tilt when it comes to speakers. They also don’t reach low enough. I’ve been reading that placement off axis might help tame the brightness and will play around with that more
- Tungsten sounds better off high gain on 465, it really helps open them up. They also sound better in higher volumes. In AB comparison to Susvara, they add low end weight which is noticable when switching back and forth but isn’t real missing from Sus on 465. At the moment only real reason to keep Tungsten is supporting Ryan and the community as a whole.
- My own pair of Diana MR is arriving on Friday. I went with suede non ported pads and plan to use my Chimera cable with adapters.
7 Likes