General Speaker Help/Discussion Thread

Speakers
548

Hey buddy, i am VERY familiar w/ what you have in hand and what you want to do. Listen to me @Towa and listen carefully so that you maximize your spending dollars.
The EC studio B is an incredible amplifier and I VERY much loved owning mine. Honestly more amp than my HP listening needs required thus i tried it out in my 2 channel set-ups more often than not.
Yes, it is capable of pushing out 3 or 4 watts off the speaker taps. You might know that i am easy to please listening at low volumes and simply enjoying products for what they CAN do well and not over stressing their weaknesses so keep that in mind as i write.

The Studio B can push a single driver speaker (IMO) between 96-100+ db sensitivity. I did NOT necessarily have success using it as a speaker amp on any of my speakers, they just weren’t the best match :man_shrugging:
The speakers i will link IMO are a good match, reasonably priced and will probably perform to your desires on a desktop :man_shrugging: (i think).

Try and keep it very simple and keep your expectations reasonable towards a “midrange queen” which will probably perform exceptionally with several genres that play to its strengths and fail at others.

You don’t need to spend allot, just wisely and w/ tempered expectations to maximize your enjoyment. :hugs:
Edit to add: if you desire to spend allot more look to speakers that use some of the various Voxative drivers , they have been used successfully w/ the Studio B.

Here are a few reasonable choices for you to mull over and research a bit on your own based on your own desires. :pinched_fingers:

Last bit of info specific to your equipment, be aware that the EML mesh plate 300B for whatever reason, according to Craig, is very light in its power output off the speaker taps. I’m not sure why, he mentioned it to me during a conversation and i simply remember that tidbit of advice and pass it along for what it’s worth buddy. :man_shrugging:

Lastly, i too would try the Zu DWX, especially since it is a 12 OHM speaker which i have had very good success w/ in my own set-ups using 1 and 2 watt amplifiers. At 12 ohm, it will cut the power output by about 1/3 and simply be a very easy load for the amp to drive.
Have fun in deciding buddy

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549

@Towa ,
The Decware tiny radials were absolutely fun speakers for background listening and the absolute easiest to place and get a wonderful soundstage w/ precise imaging, depth and just a general sense of space. They bounced though, literally bounced when pushed a bit with volume and obviously had very little lower end output.

The RP600M played well w/ the EC i just don’t like how they output on a desk.

My own personal favorites, which to this day have been the most permanent speaker on my desk and have provided me all i desire, again on a desktop, are the Monoprice K-bass. I have used them w/ everything from 1/2 watt to upwards of 100 watts. I understand limitations of wattage and volume thus am comfortable when i know i’m under-powering them. They provide the spatial detail i crave, have the tweeter in the perfect location for my listening height, are not too big or small, front ported and relatively cheap.
I cheat though, i use a very inexpensive subwoofer to keep my bottom end stable which is why i did NOT recommend any of these to you. The EC does not easily integrate w/ a sub. Thus look to other speakers as mentioned above, just wanted to give a mention to these 3 as i have experience w/ them and that amp.

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550

I am not too sure how right this website is, but seeing a lot of people getting back to speakers or maybe there are someone like me that is taking their 1st couple of steps in speakers. I hope this website help other people:

https://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/tools/calculators#amp_power_required

I was using that website and downloaded a app called decibel X on my phone to see how many watts I really needed in my power amp. The above website is pretty cool, I just put my distance from me to my speakers in meters, desired listening levels, my speaker sensitivity rating, amplifier headroom and it tells me my required power.

What I learned from the app decibel X, don’t know how accurate this is, but I guess my average listening session is 75db, peaking at 80db. I should probably lower the volume down when doing longer listening session, so now I know to at least do that. But after I put all the information on that crownaudio website, it pretty much said I need around 10 watts which is just like what the Mon Acoustic rep told me would be sufficient enough to drive my Platimon. Knowing that, that really open a lot of options of what I can do with the Platimon. I thought this website is cool and easy as it does the math for me. I hope this help other people in their journey as well.

Edit: I just put at least 15db instead of 5db for headroom and to put 85db for the desired listening session cause I saw that is more recommended to cover dynamics. Dang, I guess I need at least 127 watts. Probably gotta look into this further cause I don’t think I really need that much power…

551

The problem with these calculators is that it’s guess work, it works better the other way around, measure your listening level which is trivial to do these days, with a tablet or phone, then figure it out.
And as you’ve discovered with the calculator getting a few dB’s more volume requires a LOT more power, because dB’s are logarithmic.

You almost certainly do not need 100+W, 30W will get 90% of speakers to deafening levels, what you do sometimes get with more power is potentially better Bass extension and control, but if you have a Sub it’s not really useful, and it’s another reason you always want a sub. Getting the bass load off the speakers helps the speakers and the Amp out.

There are exceptions to this, speakers with big ribbon drivers, often require a LOT of power. And there are other drivers that can require significant power.

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552

What you’re looking at for mating the speaker to an amp and the aspect that calculators don’t get right is impedence and how an amp deals with that impedence. Speakers have different resistance at difference frequencies and that is the primary factor for good synergy versus not so good. If a speaker has a nominal load of 8 ohm but has a 2.9 ohm impedence at 80 hz let’s say. An amp is going to have to work a lot harder to get a speaker working well across the spectrum. 10 watts may be perfect but if the amp is going to struggle delivering power a higher impedance it’s when things just won’t sound right.

My speakers are 10.3 ohm at 3K but the lowest impedance it drops to is 8 ohms. Some speakers have huge swings and the amplifier needs to have sufficient current to drive loads that low.

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553

That’s good to know. I was looking into SET amps, but almost gave up on the idea as my taste in music is changing since the beginning of January. I’ve been listening to less acoustic music and even less rock music. For some reason, at the start of the year, I was hanging with a friend around New Years and he kinda got me hooked on heavily synthesized pop music. Never really liked pop music before, but I guess people taste change or he was a really good at persuading me. I thought I wanted tubes amps and was thinking if the bass is going to be there if I get tubes for speakers. Currently really interested in getting the Allnic A-2500 since 845 tubes have always been in my mind since CanJam Chicago, but was wondering if it drives enough power let alone give me the type of bass I wanted for my system. Gave the calculator a shot and it kinda shot down my idea of that. Thats really good to know that getting a sub will solve my worries of getting enough bass in my system, so I can just focus on getting my speaker to a good level with the power amp.

That is really good to know as well, never really knew that. I will probably email the US rep to get to know my speakers a lot more. Thanks, I will try to keep that in mind when looking into power amp.

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554

I use the Omega Super 3 High Outputs on my desk, using Isoacoustic Aperta stands, and am very happy with them. They are pretty big, but I have a large desk. I use a 20W LTA Ultralinear+ to power them, but I also tried a 1W LTA MZ3 and that was fine too.

I listen primarily to rock/alternative music, and I feel like the Omegas need a sub to help with the bass, but that might just be my taste, so YMMV. I’ve always used a sub with my desktop speakers and speakers just don’t right to me without a sub. I currently use a Omega DeepHemp sub, located under my desk.

I use Audio Envy Model 34 speaker cables, which replaced Anticables 3.1. I can’t compare the two because one of the spades broke off the Anticables, but I will say that the stage and depth are noticeable larger with the Audio Envy cables. The Model 34 are not listed on their website and you have to email them to make the order. I was originally going to order their SP12 cables but the owner recommended that I try the Model 34, at the same price as SP12, because they were a little more flexible and easier to use for a desktop system. He told me that he preferred the Model 34 to the SP12 and used them himself for his 2 channel (not desktop) system. I found them to have a remarkably smooth and neutral sound. They’re directional cables. I found this out by accident, because the owner had told me they are pretty neutral, and when I emailed him to tell him they were a little bright, he asked me to turn them around.

I thought the Anticables sounded great when I was using them, with a nice neutral tone (i.e. not adding or subtracting anything from the sound). On the other hand, they are as stiff as coat hanger wire, and this made it very difficult to use them in a desktop system.

I did get a chance to hear the Zu DWX at Axpona last year and was very impressed, especially since they were stacked on top of each other. Kimber had different cables connected to each pair of Zus, and switched between them to show the differences in cables’ sound.

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555

A friendly reminder that your 45 DHT based pre-amplifier will gently color the sound character of your chosen power amplifier. As you move forward in your journey remember to work at achieving synergy in the chain.

For example a possible option might be a pair of mono block amplifiers. These could be placed close to your speakers allowing you to purchase very nice speaker cables that require much shorter length thus allowing you to splurge on something higher end than you would consider otherwise. Also a pair of mono blocks rather than an integrated amplifier would be a simpler less complex design with only the volume pot of the pre amplifier in the chain. Thus making for a less complicated and possibly cleaner amplification source.

The choice of mono blocks could be a fairly neutral A/B design, possibly negating the need for more tube rolling and expense while you allow your lovely preamp to add the nice tube flavor you enjoy :thinking:

With the money saved on purchasing tubes you can splurge a bit more on the amplifiers or leave funds for power and interconnect cables to match your equipment’s sound character and best enhance it.

Thats just an example of the possibilities. :hugs:

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556

Thanks, that is something I do got to always remember is that my chain is already colored with 45 DHT tubes into my system. I was actually going to put my deposit in for Decware Torii MK5 amps and got cold feet because there was a chance my deposit is non-refundable and I got to wait 2 years and I don’t like how the amp synergize in my system after the 2 years wait lol.

So, I got back at the drawing board and started looking at power amps again just to see other options. Pretty much circle back in choosing something solid-state or something “solid-state” like where the amp is fast, clean, and transparent vs a colored amp. When I thought of that, it made me remember the Allnic stuff, so I got interested in their monoblocks. I check out the 845 monoblocks and remember the “excitement” I felt when listening to a 845 tubes at last CanJam Chicago and did always yearn for that to be in my system. The other choice was Schiit Tyr monoblocks as its the normal upgrade path from the Vidar as an “honest” amp. But after going to 2 Schiit meeting last year, Schiit gear never really “wow” me in making me think I have to have this, even the Mjolnir 3 even though it was fun to try. The Schiit Tyr might be good in my setup, so it’s still a possibility. The other choice that is still in mind is the class D AGD monoblock amp. It’s not a transparent amp, but people do say it’s a very highly resolving amp and I would like to hear the Platimon at the most highly resolving state because I really didn’t think this level of clarity exist before lol. I said it before, but I am still shock at the level of technicalities the Platimon is displaying currently on my half-baked setup. I am just really curious about what the next level sounds like, but that in turn could make my system too analytical sounding which I want to avoid. Plus I got to think about bottleneck as well, so I don’t want to overkill on poweramp.

It’s a lot to think about, but I know for sure that I won’t go down this Decware path and probably continue looking at power amps review/articles here and there and maybe something cool might pop up this year on a cool new release or maybe something in the used market that attract my attentions just like how the Platimon appeared to me.

557

Do a bit of research on this brand just for your own reference and knowledge as you move along on your journey.

Also, for your information Decware is now solidly on 2.5 yr wait. That’s a long time in anyone book. People do try and sell their place in line sometimes :man_shrugging:

This recommendation is not void of experience, i have enjoyed their equipment at a local audio show, they are a known brand and their stuff seems pretty solid.

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558

Thanks, I will look into them. I think choosing an upgrade is always pretty fun to do since it motivates me to look into other products and I always learn something out of it. I remember it took about 4 months to finally bite the bullet on choosing my headphone amp (which was the Allnic). The power amp is probably going to be longer since I want to do other stuff before biting down on an amp.

Edit: I look into the Odyssey monoblocks and they do look really interesting! I really like this statement from a reviewer:

image
image1948×658 46.5 KB

I will probably look into them more, really appreciate the recommendation Nickmimi!

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559

There’s been so many images of this setup floating around, I thought it was a great way for KK to show the differences in sound. This did this for their Carbon series cables. Te DWX is uniquely suited for this being able to stack vertically as any side by side comparison would suffer too much from speaker placement.

@Towa

When I had a desktop system, I enjoyed the Kef drivers and I believe the Kef LS50 Meta would make a great near filed speaker. Up close, two feet from the drivers, wattages is NOWHERE near as important because you’d get exceedingly loud volume even with a less than efficient speaker. The concentric drivers of the Kef speakers really do add to that pin point staging and instrument placement as the closer you are to the speaker, the greater the angle delta between a tweeter and a woofer becomes. So a single full range driver or a concentric driver excel IMO.

I also agree with @PaisleyUnderground a sub for a desktop (a small sub) adds spacial dimension and just rounds out the sound. It’s not for bass slam.

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560

@NickMimi thanks for the insights, I appreciate it especially since I know you had the exact same setup at one point, so I’m taking your advice very seriously.

excellent feedback, I’m starting to lean a bit more towards the omegas as a more realistic desktop speaker for my usecase.

Yeah this is the part that kind of makes me worried because I will not be using a sub, I pretty much refuse to use one for a desk hahaha I feel like if I’m less than 3ft from the speakers they should provide enough bass to at least be satisfactory.

@PaisleyUnderground for the Super 3 HO’s in particular, is it to the point that it’s unlistenble without a sub? like non existent sub bass? also how is the midbass performance?

Also I’m sort of thinking that the source gear is going to play a role here as well. The baltic3 + EC studio b combo is fairly warm and full sounding, not to mention how I have it kitted out with various cables and tube choices to enhance those aspects even further. In comparison I’d say the LTA stuff is definitely on the thinner side.

Actually the ls50 meta’s were one of the ones I wanted for a desktop setup, but I don’t think that the EC will work with it unfortunately. I understand what you mean about being so close that wattage doesn’t matter as much. But from my experience with a pair of KEF Q100 in my setup, it just isn’t enough. yeah it gets loud but I can tell that it’s missing something and I’ve been listening to this particular pair of Q100’s for almost 8 years now so I know when they just sound off. I know they are different speakers but that experience definitely gives me pause to go this route with my current amp.


The more I’ve been mulling it over the more I’m talking myself out of the Zu DWX, they are just too big and impractical for what I need, not to mention I think I would rather hold off and just get a pair of their DW6 floor standers later on for just a few hundred dollars more.

So the front runner is definitely the Omega Super 3 High Output right now for a good efficient and not gigantic desktop speaker. Although the Lii Song Emmo Fast-6 has piqued my interest a bit @NickMimi is there anything more you can tell me about these? First hand experience?

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561

has anyone heard the Omega K8? or seen impressions of it somewhere? This honestly seems like it would be perfect for what I want.

EDIT: I just sent Louis at Omega an email, to see what he recommends and get some advice and more info on the K8. From what I have gathered so far the K8 is a newer offering using their 8inch paper cone full range driver in a monitor with a front loaded bass port and has 92db efficiency. seems like they really only started selling them at the beginning of the year, they have been posting a lot of pictures on their instagram

562

Looks like they’re 92db but that should still be plenty. They look great!

Why are you so against a sub? Nothing wrongs with a preference like that just curious to why.

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563

Oops you’re right, it’s the super 3 high output monitors that has 98db :grin:

I like subs for full room setups but for a super nearfield desk setup, I just feel like it is really unnecessary haha Would it sound better with a sub? yeah of course it would but I don’t really need it, not to mention it would be a pain to find the space for one and I have to figure out how to make it work with the studio b, just a lot of headaches that I don’t want to deal with. I would rather take the money and just buy better speakers lol

Plus I like to just listen to speakers by themselves how they were intended as well I’m not a bass head to begin with so as long as the low frequencies aren’t totally neutered and have atleast some heft down below I’m a happy camper.

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564

Agreed to all you have said here and w/ your equipment choices currently it is true. The problem i have found w/ desktop speaker application is getting yourself seated and the speakers placed just right in where the Bass wave (node) hits your ears is almost impossible and I seem to always be in the null. I putzed around for weeks around my desk and the whole room in general trying to find a spot a subwoofer would work and yes, it was a royal pain in the butt and many times i was frustrated and almost gave up because of how much work it was to set up.

I also played around w/ speaker positions, different styles of speakers, actually mounted speakers on stands behind the desk and up high to be even w/ my ears and unfortunately just due to the layout of the room none of this was practical.

To add to your frustration the EC does NOT easily integrate w/ a sub, you WiLL have to completely disconnect the sub when you want to use it for HP duty otherwise you WILL get potentially damaging feedback in your HP’s every time you connect a pair, don’t take my word for it go ahead and try it yourself. :man_shrugging:

Let’s assume (wild guesses here, very wild) you lose bass output somewhere around 50 hz -ish, yes that sucks BUT are you using the desktop for background and casual listening or critical ? :thinking: (this is the one application a bit of EQ can be helpful, either digital or hard wired)

Keep your spending minimal, get it in your head that this set-up is for casual and background listening, consider the size of the speakers and the impact they will have on your workspace and set your expectations within reason and hopefully you will surpass your expectations in reality. :crossed_fingers:

I have NO hands on w/ Lii speakers and I’m pretty sure the Emo 6 does not exist in the CONUS, but damned if I’m not super curious to try it or read about someones experience in actually getting hands on it, it looks great and i assume it will be at minimum a midrange, imaging and possibly detail queen :man_shrugging: (listen to me talking myself into them :rofl:)

I remind you that the power output of the EC in speaker mode is OK but not ideal, it’s a better pre-amp and HP amp IMO, i used it many times on speakers w/ satisfactory results but it was never my “first choice” or “lasting choice” in such applications. (I think i commented a few times somewhere on the forum, i have difficulty recollecting my thoughts) :sad_but_relieved_face:

The smaller, more sensitive Omegas, w/ the 4” driver pair seem to be a good choice :man_shrugging: overall w/your equipment, based on build, specs, design etc.

Good luck, I’m curious to see what you come up with. :+1:

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565

Starting off with the studio B is the compromise IMO as it’s going to limit your speaker selection. Especially asking for bass that isn’t inherently anemic. You need a bigger driver for that and then with the bigger driver comes the bigger cabinet. You may be better off using your amp as a pre into some quality powered monitors and lessen your headaches of trying to make it all work.

More choices, better amp match and you still get your decent source. More importantly it will likely be your cheapest option as you won’t need cables.

I also want to understand your comment about the Q100, I had them on my desk a long time ago paired with an Emotiva Bass X A100 and that was why made me want to start on a proper 2 channel. Are you saying you’re using them now with the EC?

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566

@Towa

Another speaker candidate for your consideration. I had forgotten about these until I just stumbled across a pair for sale on FB out of Harrisonburg VA.

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567

I agree with dB_Cooper…studio B is going to super limiting. I don’t think Omegas would work that well with it and those are already the smallest, highest efficiency speakers you can buy. The high efficiency of them is definitely tempting but I’ve had a couple friends who felt they were a bit lacking. I think a sub is absolutely necessary with them.