Do you have a general idea of what sort of sound you would be after, what dac you would be pairing with it, and what traits you want to emphasize/focus on? Also what other potential headphones you would want to drive off the amp?
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I really like the g111 in general. But I don’t care for it with the Utopia. Could be the pairing with the BF2, but I like the RNHP pairing with the Utopia much better.
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Good questions. Sound wise I tend towards neutral and fun/warm. Depending on the day and the mood. I’m really a sucker for sound stage width and depth. That’s a big part of what pulled me in on the utopia: focal sound stage with more depth and layering.
No idea on next DAC. I’ve not really looked to far into it. I want to try the Soekris dac2541, but that’s more of a side grade.
Regarding other headphones, nothing specific yet. Susvara are certainly on my list to try, the lcd-5 were fun to try (and I loved the resolution and bass extension), but my signal chain today didn’t do them justice. But I could see adding something planar like that to the utopia eventually.
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Gotcha. In that case, the mass kobo, ecp, and lta lean rather more toward that deadpan neutral, not dry or lean or inorgainc mind you, but neutral and don’t focus on adding much extra when not needed. I do think spatially the lta would be the most sizable and spacious out of that group leaning more toward a spherical like stage somewhat like the the focal themselves with very good accuracy and depth in that bubble, still reasonably wide though. The mass kobo takes a stronger focus on placement accuracy and being more no nonsense but still very involved in it’s stage, it’s not the widest but it has a ton of depth and accuracy to make up for that. The ecp from more limited memory has the least impressive stage out of the three, it’s still really good but not as immediately stand out as the other 2. Speed and separation to go along with that stage are all fantastic on them for the price
In the warmer-neutral class being the pass, eddie current, and vio, I think the warmest or most thickly tilted is likely the studio b depending on the tubes, next is the vio, and I think the pass is the most neutral while still leaning a bit warmer. Spatially the eddie current does take the cake in comparison to the other 2 for sure being the most accurate in placement, most deep, and most wide out of the bunch. The pass is very balanced in stage, presenting things organically but not being the most stand out or technical in that area, but still very refined. The vio has solid spatial capabilities with being reasonably accurate and wide, but sometimes can feel a bit more dry in it’s placement with the utopia at least, again still solid though. But none of these amps really lean toward anything I’d call very warm or rich or anything, just mildly so at most
So for stage capability overall I’d look more toward the lta, eddie current, mass kobo, although the others are also great with stage
Again stage is only one aspect though of course lol
I’d say it would really just depend on what you end up getting so perhaps hold off and decide when you get an amp in hand
Hmmmmm. Susvara is going to be hard to fulfill in this price point imo, out of what’s mentioned the v550 would drive them best, but there could be potentially other worthwhile options somewhat in the range, it’s just that a lot of the amps that drive both the susvara and utopia equally well are going to cost you a lot more than this range of amps (so you’ll have to prioritize one or the other)
No clue on the lcd 5. Also I think you might find that your current chain isn’t doing as much justice to the utopia as you think if you hear some of the above lol. If you wanted to add a planar to some of the amps mentioned, the d8000 pro works well with almost all of them (presumably also the regular one too) so that could be an interesting option, also lcd 24 but that’s somewhat lower tier
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Thanks for the good info. I’m targeting budget for an amp purchase in April this year. So I have time to look and think.
To be honest, I have no idea what my next headphone is. I’ve got so much room to grow in the Utopia I’ve not thought much about it.
And yes, running any TOTL headphone on a $500 amp is a bit of a joke. But still fun 
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I used to think that way and also others may think I am a joke for saying this, but I was shying away from some TOTL headphones because of words in print telling me my amps or dacs are not sufficient or worthy of doing such great pieces the justice they deserve, but I stepped out, ran a couple of those TOTL sets on gears I have and said you know what, those sound damn good to me and feel like upgrades, and or are giving a better experience than I am not getting now so who cares? I mean sure I can improve things as I upgrade other downstream pieces over time - but instead of waiting for that day to come to enjoy TOTLs I am doing it now, while I’m on the hunt. So you do you!
sorry ranted on I think - My therapist is OOO and it shows…
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Yes, for sure! I didn’t mean $500 amp + $5000 headphone is bad. It can be much better than $500 amp + $500 headphone. It’s just not getting everything out of the $5000 headphone.
For exactly the reasons you mentioned I bought the Utopia. It’s massively better than all of my $1500 headphones on the same signal chain. And has way more runway ahead of it.
I intend to upgrade the signal chain first, but I’m kinda glad I got the headphones first. Now I can dial in the rest of the chain to match it
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Hello,
Focal had listened to the Feliks Euforia amplifier with the Utopia at a trade fair and said that it was the ultimate combo when it comes to Otl.
In the meantime they also recommend it.
I would listen to it if I had the chance.
I’m sure there are other Otl amps like the Cayin one.
Audio Note should also have something in the starting blocks, I’ve read, and it shouldn’t be too expensive, but it’s more of a do-it-yourself system, similar to the Elekit 8200.
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I think that used modwright tryst is still available which might work well with the utopia (haven’t heard though but M0N seemed to like it). Might be worth checking out before it disappears…
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I don’t know if this is just me, but personally I really did not enjoy that combo. It made the utopia too bassy, loose, and somewhat mushy, lacking control and definition. It did calm it a bit and give it a more grand stage, but personally I thought it hampered the dynamics and it also lost accuracy in that stage, I would not recommend from my own experiences as I think it sacrifices some of the aspects that make focal great, but others have liked it alot so perhaps my demo was poor or something
Ah that might be solid, I have only tried that briefly with a utopia but not enough to comment too much on it’s sound tbh, but it was pretty enjoyable for the aspects you are going for @elementze, I think it would be a solid alternative to the eddie current as long as you don’t mind a slight step down in technical ability and something a bit warmer as well
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Yes, okay, I know what you mean.
It’s because of the 6AS7G tubes from Svetlana.
The tubes don’t really harmonise well with the Mundorf caps and mask the details.
And that’s exactly what you described.
But you can counteract this with other tubes that are better than a 6080 tube.
The Ps Vane 6SN7 was also too neutral for me.
I would buy the Euforia without the stock tubes if I had the choice again, because there are clearly better ones, and because the extra price is not justified.
My favourite was Linlai 6SN7 Elite tube and 6080 Mullard on the standard capacitors.
After conversion to Vcaps it looks different again.
The conversion on the 6SN7 socket alone with TFTF or CuTf is worthwhile and easy to do.
On the 6AS7G socket it is unfortunately not easy, but it is feasible.
Even with the Svetlana tube, you can’t hear anything masked out anymore, just straight ahead.
Currently I have the Svetlana 6AS7G with the Foton’s 6SN7 installed and almost speechless what comes out.
A tube set for just under 50-60$.
In summary, the Euforia is not bad, a lot can be achieved with other tubes and potential can be ignited.
But the real potential lies in replacing better capacitors, which can be expensive with Vcap but worth the money to get the maximum.
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Makes sense, I feel like with OTL amps they are seemingly more affected by the quality of components used and the types of tubes used, don’t get me wrong better quality components benefits almost all amps but OTL seem to showcase those changes very apparently. I’ll have to try another Feliks at some point with better tubes and caps. I do think that amp can be worthwhile, but personally it just isn’t the sound for me for what it goes for, because I’d expect it always to lean more on that softer and sweeter side of things which I just don’t think meshes that well with a utopia most of the time (it’s the same way with DNA amps, some love them with focal but I personally just don’t like what it does to the cans, tries to turn them into something they are not). I did really like the euforia a lot more with the hd800s, t1.2, and adx5k, but the utopia just personally didn’t do it for me
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Not to sidetrack the conversation but what are the downsides of OTL design amps? Reading the “benefits” list it would seem that OTL would be a preferred design but that’s clearly not the case.
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Most use Cathode followers for current gain, and some consider those to be inferior in sound.
You’re not going to get an output impedance much below 60 Ohms with a cathode follower. You can get better than that with multiple parallel output tubes, or feedback in the output stage, cyclotrons and other more complicated output designs, again considered inferior sounding.
Advantage is the sound isn’t colored by a transformer, disadvantage you have to get current gain some how (something tubes are not good at), and that will color the sound.
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Hello,
Yes, you’re right.
You will probably never find an Euforia to buy that has different capacitors.
If you did, it would be luck.
I did it on my own initiative, what I could do myself I did and it was not difficult.
The Odam rebuild was a bit more complex so I had it done.
But it was worth it.
To try and keep it short though.
As you said, the Otl reacts strongly to components.
I can only agree with that.
The replacement of the 6SN7 socket alone was a real leap forward and made the Mundorf look old.
I have only profited from it, the sound has changed for the better, with the Lcd2C it plays much better, I can put aside the hunt for expensive tubes.
And I had a small problem with the Euforia and Lcd2c, especially in the treble range, that it occasionally distorted, which has also gone since the conversion.
It did have one disadvantage and that was the wallet.
The disadvantages of the Otl are a good question.
Certainly the implementation is important, bad or less good components.
My impression after the conversion is that before the conversion I needed better tubes to achieve the desired result.
After the conversion it is rather the other way round.
I have been able to find a few good bargains on Ebay and the like.
6SN7 Nec currently sold at Sophia Electric as a limited edition for $200 each, the pair for $60,
Hitachi Ultron,Westinghouse 50-60$ a pair all quite excellent tubes for a round clean full bodied sound.
For the 6as7g sockets, the 6080 Csf Thomson is my favourite at the moment as well as the Svetlana.
The Svetlana more after conversion to Odam.Depending on the 6sn7 tube it can be snotty to smooth with it,to a miserable long low end.
I actually saw the Euforia as it is now when I bought it a year ago.
Of course it wasn’t planned, it was more the impulse that led from one thing to the other after the conviction it had to go one step further.
It doesn’t have to be the Vcap, there are other capacitors that are better than the Mundorf.
But if you like the basic sound, which could be better with more power, more depth, better vocal imaging, then the Vcap.
Here is a picture of it, I also changed the preamp output to Odam.
Before: The blue circle means nothing
After with Vcap:
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433 over 394 mk2? 394s seem to be sub 3k used as well
Also, another shout would be an 800R stack if you can find one. Similar overall tier to the 428 IMO but a different sound. It may just be easier to find the either the masskobo or ECP.
mini has wierd synergy with utopia. It does the “am I wearing headphones or is that coming from another room” thing super well but thats basically it. Overall I wasnt a fan.
Ferrum stack is a good shout in this range as is the A&S mogwai imo.
Go tubes then tbh. It realy is worth the hastle, and espcialy so with utopia
Hm, would be well over that by the time you tried to get one in your hands, realistically a more 4.5-5k endeavor from my experience, unless you know someone personally over there (but perhaps that’s changed and it’s cheaper now) That being said an older 394 is pretty attainable sub 3k. The 394II is probably the cheapest amp I’ve tried with the utopia or mysphere 3.2 that I thought landed in the “holy shit” category
Forgot about that, yes good option
I guess, but personally I can’t say I’m particularly impressed with the utopia on there compared to other options that can be had in the similar price point. Potentially same with susvara. Never tried a focal on the mogwai so can’t comment too much there
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Yah, technicality wise my forge is probably on a similar teir to 428/gsx-mini/etc. I just personally find its presention with utopia and susvara exceptionally subjectively pleasing due to adding a slightly airier stage and its essential inability to become congested though. That said, I don’t have massive experience with tube amps so I still don’t reaky know what all out there
As for the Ferrum i personally like the added separation with utopia. Tbh congestion in the stage is one of my biggest problems with that can so I value amps that avoid it even if in an unnatural way
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Welp, going to trust what @Veritas says about the horizon, I’ve got a few options now for what I want to do now, I think in this case, I’ve narrowed it down to 3 possibilities, and all of them would include ditching both my pac and d1-direct setup and a few other dacs I have lying around as well.
- Move to the d1-twelve-mk3
- Move to horizon
- Move to loaded select ii
The totaldac would by far be the cheapest option, likely be the best value, and also hold the most resale value later on (these will not give much savings used, so might as well buy new). The horizon I’d be buying new but if I was more patient waiting for them to show used would likely put them in a similar price point to the totaldac. I do think currently the d1-direct-mk2 + d1-drivers-mk2 equals the pacific in most areas, so I expect it to be a somewhat even upgrade.
A used maxed out select 2 isn’t that far off from some of these options (if I bought new for the above), and that would likely be a step above the aforementioned, but I question if my setup could really benefit from what this may bring over a twelve or horizon, I feel like the headphone amps I have would become too big of a bottleneck and I’d have to move to mainly all speaker amps to drive the headphones, and that’s assuming the headphones can even scale enough to justify that added cost.
Don’t really know what I should do, I don’t really want to go through the hassle of demoing any of them (as I think I have enough bearing on what they sound like by hearing other of their products), but really stuck on what I want to go through with. Real long shot but I’d appreciate if anyone has any insight or suggestions what what might be the way to go or not, really just stuck in decision paralysis here.
There are other higher end dacs I could consider from sw1x, trinity, wadax, and ch precision (and others that have higher end options but I don’t think would either suit my system or be an upgrade over what I have (not going to list these off lol)), but these are the ones that really stand out to me and feel like they would be the safest bets considering what I already have and have heard.
No matter what I do, I’m likely going to consolidate even further and optimize my setup around chosen dac, so it’s really more just trying to figure out which one I want to live with for quite a long time (for serious this time lol)
A potential option would be moving up the AC dac ladder, which I’d really like to do, but I don’t want to do that mainly because I’d be more tempted to keep that in 2ch and I’m really looking to upgrade my desk setup here (which I also use much more often)
I am concerned about moving up this high for a few reasons, already mentioned the concern of potentially not scaling any further, but also the concern over security and privacy as when you get gear on this level it now becomes much easier to potentially find the owner so that’s something I also have to consider. Cost is an obvious concern as well but I’m more worried about the first 2
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Damn. Sorry. lol.
Also, anyone that has heard both the Wadax and the Horizon said the Horizon wiped it off the floor.
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