Tbh, I prefer sus on forge over 13r even ignoring prices. Far better timbre, texture, and spacial presentation while not realy even loosing any detail.
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That’s interesting, never heard the forge, but vs a mogwai SE I’d take the 13r over it any day for the most part in most all aspects outside of stage
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Forge is basically just a mogwai se with solid state rectification and less taps from what I understand. But yah. Maybe my sources are gimping it or something but tbh I’ve realy not been a particularly big fan of 13r thus far
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Well I think I finally understand the love this amp gets… I can only assume the amp I was using before was gimping the hell out of it. In other news, I guess I know where my next upgrade is…
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Decent stack.
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Tfw no og pacific → aic-10 for max gold coverage
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It must have cost a small fortune.
Having fun with it. What kind of device is the top part?
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Its weiss dac 502 → an OG Cavalli Liquid Gold. Dac is 9k RRP and amp is OOP but ~3.5k used. I was using the chain with sus. Now have LCD-5 on it but its not quite the same level of magic as sus
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I think he’s playing with toys at an actual retail store. @Draaly says he’s broke but he still playing with the temptations.
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I’m only broke cause I got me a big boi amp and have refused to sell any gear for months now 
I’m ngl man, I may see what they will do on trade in to get one of these dacs. I remember what I heard last time I listened to this and and if the dac can do that to my 13r ima be a very happy man…
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Well, to each his own toy.
If he can afford it, have fun.
I couldn’t.
Because at some point one’s own morals kick in and then the woman.
Most of the time, the woman kicks in before the morals 
.
Honestly, I’m happy the way it is at the moment.
Roon is finally running,my Vcaps Odam capacitors have arrived in Germany for the Feliks Euforia.
What more could you want?
I’ll take Chris Venhouse’s advice and get the last 10% out of the device.
Sometimes it’s cheaper than buying something new or high-priced, even second-hand.
I’m curious to see how the Vcap Odam’s will do in conjunction with the TFTF already installed in the Euforia.
The TFTFs have already done well in terms of performance and recognition.
But a Dac from Weiss wouldn’t go amiss either, and I wouldn’t complain.
I’ve had a look at it - apart from the fact that it’s German, it makes a good impression.
As a stupid German, I rarely get along with German products.
My favourite things are strangely more on the US side and sometimes something British if it’s well made.
I find the US devices more practicable, also in terms of application, even if it costs a lot, you often have more peace and quiet afterwards.
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That’s the biggest problem when demoing an amp, it’s only going to be as good as the dac connected to it lol
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I wish I could remeber what I used it on last time tbh. The first time I demoed was P6P → D8KP. I can see that not being great synergy, but last time it was some source the shop had → Sus and my impressions were basically the same tbh. Wish I knew what it was just to know tbh.
In other news, I do indeed still love BHSE → 009S (dave + blu from my dirty laptop USB) and I’ve managed to convince they to hook the weiss up to the wa33 to try that again as well.
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I mean, thats all that realy counts. This hobby is pretty fundamentally about enjoying music. if you are happy then you have end game. Dont delude yourself for a second itno thining we arent largely bat cases here (and basicaly every other audio forum tbh).
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Ok, so I’ve got weiss dac502 → wa33 (I think JPS but not elite with stock tubes) → sus/LCD-R
My impressions of this one still pretty well stand tbh. Nuts detail and great control over everything but it kinda just doesn’t have an appeal to me. Maybe if the dac was warmer/more holographic? But tbh my first impressions of “id like more texture and I don’t realy get any tubyness at all even in stage” still pretty well stand. I enjoy it quite a bit more with LCD-R than sus tbh but I think that is largely due to the R making it less fatiguing than it is with sus
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It’s not a tubey tube amp. As I’ve said before, push/pull amps generally don’t tend to sound wet.
I hear the tubes in it, but it’s subtle, and I don’t expect tube amps to sound tubey. It still has some midrange weight, and it has the character I associate with DHT’s.
But given your preferences it doesn’t surprise me it doesn’t hit the mark for you.
There’s is even more resolution and control with better tubes, and I think perhaps surprisingly it has great synergy with the Chord Dave FWIW.
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Just FWIW, to me, “tubyness” is far far far more about messing with stage than it is about any kind of tonality/sweetness/wetness. I dont deny at all that I like lush mids, but I wasnt expecting that from the wa33 in the first place. What I kinda was expecting and didnt realy get was either holography in the imaging or stage depth realy any different than even HSA-1b or LAu.
I am admittedly inexpericed with tubes FWIW. My expectation for wa33 from reading impressions online (be it here or elsewhere) was “phantasy II but power and control” (though not like anyone here besides @M0N even understands that point of reference I don’t think -.-). AKA, stage is normal sized but exceptionally deep and nuanced while tonality is flat and dry. Instead what I heard was basically just “phonitor on as much steroids’ as you can possibly stuff in it”.
At least for this one I do understand the appeal, so its not as puzzling to me as say my first couple tries of the OG LAu were. I am mostly just surprised this sound signature isn’t just done flat out better by some solid state design (tbh wa33 is kinda like what I imagine the mass kobo 406 sounds like if you trade just a hair of the wa33 image location/depth clarity for a hair more texture and body) and I think thats part of why it appeals less to me. Its not that I think I can actualy get that sound sign better elsewhere, but just that tubes are kind of a hassle and I dont think what I heard justifies that for me
I was able to heard it on both Weiss and dave + blu back to back yesterday. I think the weiss was a little more in your face with detail and a bit more natural but I did find the staging of the dave more pleasing with the WA33. Unfortunately both combos were just too fatiguing for my tastes. I would be quite curious to hear the WA33 with a warmer/more exaggeratedly holographic source (maybe a may?) though. From my (very) brief at home demo of the Spring 3 I think that sound may actualy be closer to my general preference (so long as it isn’t doubled down on too hard elsewhere in the chain at least)
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Typically when I think of “tubyness” I’d associate it with sloppier control, slower attack and decay, more tonal density/richness, more spaced out stage with less precision, great dynamic capability, excellent timbre. I guess though, all depends. But yes the wa33 is not like that. It takes a strong focus on grip and control, a somewhat neutral forward tonality (although I do agree with @Polygonhell that it has a bit of extra sweetness and denseness in the midrange), it’s stage is very accurate and precise and doesn’t really add extra holographicness and isn’t that big in size, it’s pretty dynamic overall but not overstated, and pretty resolving with a great deal of micro as well. Timbre is also good but not super stand out for the price point. Somewhat of a great no nonsense all rounder with a bit of sweetness imo. It’s not that fun nor forgiving of an amp when it comes to making things more pleasant and involved if they aren’t already
I would kinda see that comparison, but it’s a bit different from the phantasy ii, it’s a stronger technical focus. I personally wouldn’t compare to a phonitor as I think that really doesn’t have much spatial capability whatsoever and also doesn’t really bring out that much nuance nor present things as organic, but I can see that if someone liked the phonitor they might really like the wa33
If you are trying to buy tubes to hear the “tubes” then this is def not what you want. I’d avoid and lean more toward things like a DNA or others that focus on that. Also for a comparison of a 394 ii, I can kinda see that, but even if they might fill the same role for some they do sound reasonably different, I don’t think the 406 sounds like this either
I’d agree, or you can also lean it more sweet and expansive too but sacrifice a bit of that technical ability, but regardless it is still going to be cleaner and more dry leaning than other options
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Yah, that is more of what I was going after. Its quite clear that even the best I’ve heard from a phonitor is technically several tiers below wa33. I just see a wa33 as kind of matured/refined/evolved version of that sound.
Oh yes. Its certainly quite different (apart from maybe tonality). The phantasy comparison was what I was expected the wa33 to sound like before I ever used it. When it didn’t sound even close to that I was caught off guard tbh.
I guess I would generally agree with this. Tbh my experiences so far with tubes have had enough variation that the only common point I’ve been comfortable calling “tubey” is just messing with stage (be it depth, imaging, or width) and thats only because I haven’t found a solid state that does those like tubes can not because I think they even do it similarly between tube amps. Tbh though, tubey is just a shit descriptor. I should probably try and figure out more specifc ones to use
Ok. I was slightly curious about where exactly DNA/EC/etc stack up here. I am currently selling basically any and all cans those amps are capable of running so I won’t be getting one soon but would be cool to hear even if just for added reference at least.
Yah, I agree. I was just trying to think of a more linear, very resolving and excellent staging solid state amp and was coming up with a blank aside from MK tbh. I agree that even if the 428 and wa33 were on the same technical level it would be clear they came from different companies. I think a lot of this discussion is just coming from my difficulty accurately conveying what I’m hearing here tbh.
Honestly, is part of the appreciation for wa33 that despite sounding more classically “solid state” there just not being a solid state option that does the same thing?
Just a curious question, but what tubes do yall run in your 33s? Did you branch out away from woos standard recommended upgrade compliment?
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Mine has NOS 6C45Pi tubes, rather than the gold lion ones which had manufacturing consistency issues. But changing that tube doesn’t really matter.
I run PSVane Acme 2A3’s which I like a lot, but have a multi hundred hour burn in before they settle down.
And I’m currently running a KR5U4G Anniversary rectifier.
The stock tubes aren’t terrible, But, I’d personally immediate upgrade the Soviet rectifier, it’s not the best choice even given it’s price. RCA 5U4G is a good choice for not many $, that will greatly improve openness and the amps control.
The stock EH 2A3 tubes aren’t bad, they tend to skew a little heavy in the bass, lack a little control in that area, and they aren’t as open as some of the higher end choices.
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