Yah, totaly fair on the stage. Just TBH, my time with T2 on shang was fairly limited, before I had more extensive time with shang, on a chain I didnt know, and not exactly in a quiet enviornment. Thats kinda why im only realy confidant in talking about the bass. I would love to hear it again and try and figure that out, but its not realy an amp that fits what I need anyways (unless I get a new job with remote work which seems hyper unlikely given my field).
As for Z10E though, I think its a fairly fine line balancing act. With the 12 it was tonaly fine and just bass light but with the WD it was fairy strident. Maybe you can throw some warmer tubes in it and be ok, but Id hesitate to req it to someone with, say, a dave. Honestly, I realy just wish that LTA would make a Z10E with tunign more inline with MZ3/pre instead of the more linear sound of Z10E. As it stands, I think id probabaly take x9k over shang for z10e unless z10e is very clearly just a ‘tide me over’ amp.
great discussion here… paints a picture that the market really needs a killer energizer to show up. Feels like the next frontier in summit audio. We need something to really take the estats to the next level.
Sounds like for most that’s been the viva stx lately out of the new releases, but surely you could go higher than that in the future lol. Just too many barriers of entry for most mfg to try it seems
I heard the STX with X9K at canjam and can’t say I liked it better than the 3ES with X9K at the show but it wasn’t a fair fight - 3ES was in a private room, STX was at the main floor
I was able to use STX with shang for about half an hour before canjam actualy opened. there was something quite off about the pairing tbh. I wonder if it because of shangs wierd stator setup, but it was a no-go in my mine tbh. It honestly just sounded kinda broken.
I had a very similar experience to yours with the jr at Munich, viva had both them and the L700 hooked up to the STX and the jr was pretty wonky, just really of, I much preferred the L700 to them. It might really be their stator setup messing things up.
From all the intense dac discussions, I gather that most of us are very digital focused but do people have any opinions on good turntable setups? I bought an entry level Project debut like 7-8 years ago and have a very small vinyl collection because it never really sounded very good. It could be because I didn’t have a good phono or I didn’t clean my records well enough or I never set up my turntable properly but regardless I am kinda put off by that table anymore and want to get back into vinyls and grow my collection and actually listen to my small collection.
I have been looking at the usual suspects - VPI, Rega, Linn, Dr. Fieckert and a couple more. My budget is about 5-7k-ish. I am quite confused, especially between Rega and VPI as those tend to be quite divisive.
I’ll need a phono as well as the Leben doesn’t have a phono stage. I am not very familiar with good options in this area except Sutherland and perhaps Manley. Does anyone have any suggestions where I should look?
There’s a lot you can do with that budget for a good vinyl rig, one piece you missed is cartridge, either MM or MC.
How do I say this without sounding like an ass……putting together a vinyl rig is not as simple as throwing money at buying big name/popular components. Just like with digital, the synergy here is more sensitive and can lead to frustration.
I have gone through the act of building a vinyl rig twice now, similar to you I picked up a $400 Pro-next table ten years ago and had no idea what I was doing. That experiment ended fast, then about three years ago I gave it a proper shot with a solid low-maintenance deck, tone-arm, and cartridge: MoFi StudioDeck with MasterTracker.
Now I’m not saying you go down that route, but know what you want out of it in terms of sound expectations and how much fuckery you are willing to do so it’s not sounding off because the VTF is to light or heavy.
Yeah the first time I basically had no to little idea what I was doing. This time I am trying to do my due diligence. I didn’t mention cartridges at this time because I was planning to stick to what is recommended with good synergy with table. So for example Rega RP8 comes recommended with Apheta 3 and there are some recommendations for VPI tables in similar budget.
Since I also need a phono, I would choose the phono based on the cartridge I get. Some of the Sutherland ones I was looking looked pretty flexible in terms of handling both types.
I have been going down the hole of tonearms and tables for now and that seems plenty deep to keep me busy so far.
You have to know what your going for, there is a huge difference in Vinyl rigs they can be anywhere from fast and technical to sluggish and very rich. Bass can be all over the place.
Just the overall philosophy of design is all over the place, Belt vs Direct drive, lightweight low resonance materials over mass loaded systems, there is SOME commonality at the VERY high end, but even there you’ll see radical differences in approach.
It’s one of the few things if I were to get back into it, I’d consider new from a dealer, because matching components is a total crap shoot otherwise.
The single most important match is Cartridge and Phono Stage (and if your not at entry level you probably want to spend way more on the phono stage than you think you should), the arm has to be able to support the cartridges requirements and the table itself will limit you at some point.
Thanks, that is very useful. I hadn’t really been thinking of it as a system so far but instead individual components. I have seen a fair amount of focus on modularity, especially in higher end tables. I guess that’s more/also towards this kind of matching tonearms with cartridges rather than purely from an upgrade-ability point of view.
Vinyl rig also requires a couple things beyond the obvious components: storage space, record cleaner, maintenance/alignment accessories…
Phono stage should probably be at the same level as the TT - I would suggest considering a spend at or near the cost of the TT for a phono. Cartridge choices are limited by what your phono can do and the physical limitations of the tonearm; however, I think the tonearm limitations are a little overblown as long as your cart specs are within reason of the tonearms capability to handle it.
At your suggested budget for a cart/TT/phono you should be able to get something decent enough. The options for a vinyl rig are pretty extensive so it’s hard to suggest anything in particular. Just do a lot of research into whatever TT you are considering as some of them can be maintenance pigs and others are simply power on and watch things spin.
Also, and I think this is really key, make sure there are actually LPs out there that suit your musical tastes. Vinyl can be really expensive and it’s a shit deal to buy LPs you dont really want just to have something to spin.
What tubes are you running on the BHC? That could be another way to potentially “upgrade” the sound. If you plan to keep the BHC around, the amount it would cost to put together a new BHC would get you a nice set of tubes for your current one.
Your going to find it difficult to find an amp comparable to the BHC any cheaper than it is.
It’s a great amp for what it is, too colored for me to personally use it as more than a change of pace, but still very good for what it is.
If your looking cheaper The DarkVoice is a similar circuit to the basic Crack, the component quality is considerably lower and it doesn’t have a bypass cap on the cathode resistor, which likely makes it even “tubier”, and possibly noisier. It’s below the level I consider tube amps worthwhile, but if you are just looking for a big rich sound it might work.
I meant going the same price or up (im going to buy the amp after next months bills) like woo wa6 and quicksilver amp, heck maybe even a liquid platinum lol or sw51+
But I know those wont probably have the color and space of the BHC, its a rather unique amp, maybe better not sell it?
For driver im running 6sn7wgta sylvania black base with an adapter
For power a classic black base GE 6080
The combination is very good imo, it might be posible to improve it but Im not sure about tube rolling because $$ and availability but it may be worth it idk
The SW51+ is a better amp to me, but it’s considerably less colored, so there is a lot of personal preference in it.
Haggerman Tuba is inline with the SW51+, and easier to find.
Quicksilver is a significant step up IMO, again MUCH less color, and might not be what your looking for.