ECP Audio thread, Torpedo / DSHA / T4 / X.3 / Nitsch DSHA-3FN

[Souldriver]

I spoke to the guy in charge of the project and got some good info.

@CeeTee

Hi,

1. Only change was to the diodes in the power supply (upgraded). The two boards separated by heatsink have been joined to make the footprint smaller. You should be able to stack with a DAC and put on your desk more easily.
2. Not designed to swap caps, can’t easily move PSU outside case because now it will be joined.
3. Chassis color will be only one color(Deep Dark Space Grey) right now I already have the walnut sides made and they are in a range of very dark to very light (all walnut though).

So small concerns. Joining boards that were split may be, not great. Especially if those boards were split and one had the power handling.

I am not sure how big the originals were, as they didnt seem large, but people kept wanting smaller and cheaper. I would take the larger dimensions over the small footprint if it meant better sound. This is all just theory pitching as i dont know if anyone has heard the new one.

Ill keep my eye out for an OG unit still. But would love to be surprised by the new one.

[ckhirnigs]

I do like the addition of RCA inputs. I wasn’t looking forward to buying nice XLR interconnects or an RCA to XLR adapter. Now if I get the amp, I can use my existing RCA interconnects without any issue or added expense.

[Robson]

I also saw this amp on Nitsch website, it looks intriguing.

Anyone here have or heard the OG? I looked at the SBAF thread, but it raises as many questions as answers for me.

It sounds like it is a very good/great match with high impedance DD headphones (e.g. ZMF, Senn), even though it was designed for lower impedance Focals.

But how is it with planars like Rosson? I read some folks had enjoyable results with DCA somethings, don’t remember which right now.

I’m not a “specs” guy, but I didn’t see anything spec-wise really. I think there were some voltage output measurements in there somewhere, but that doesn’t really translate for me in terms of useful watts vs impedance measurements. I’m just trying to get some idea of what the amp is capable of driving well.

Any sonic impressions from folks here I’d greatly appreciate also!

[Souldriver]

Zach used it at shows to power the Atrium. It was on my list of amps to check out but it has taken long to get even to this point and i feel like i may have moved past it.

[Robson]

@Souldriver

Zach used it at shows to power the Atrium

Well that’s pretty high praise right there!

[SaberPunch]

Anyone planning to get the DSHA-3FN?

I heard it was going to come out March or April. I received a news letter email in the beginning of February and was planning to buy it. But now with all the new headphones and used audio gear I’m trying to buy, I don’t think I can save $2800 in 1-2 months. It’s also super limited with just 35 amps, so I will have to miss this release unless I change my mind.

News letter email:
“The run will only be 35 amps. As much as I wanted to be able to lower the price from what Doug originally charged, there are many custom parts from Sweden, Canada, and the U.S. For the first run, I will keep pricing the same as the original amp, $2,799.”

[Camus]

I have had the DSHA-3F for about 3 months, though only able to use it for 2 months because of travel and other obligations.

A bit of background on this particular unit, it was the first unit made and as such has a bit different internal components such as PSU and permanent amorphous Lundhal transformers.

In my research on this amp, mainly taken from SBAF and the defunct HeadCase forum, led me to believe this amp pairs wonderfully with Focal headphones such as the Utopia (hence the “F”), ZMF, and Sennheiser dynamics. Much of what I had read about these pairings was quite the opposite of what I experienced with my Utopia, Verite, and HD650.

All the headphones lacked the engagement I enjoyed with my other amps, presentation was dull with no emphasis on highs or lows. My first thought was DAC synergy, I first tried it on my SFD before it went on the fritz, then I tried with my Chord stack and still no bueno. I then tried it with a Bricasti M1 SE which a friend kindly loaned me for a bit, and same experience. At that point I seriously thought the DSHA was busted, although I had no way of knowing what component would be the culprit. I kind of gave up on it for a bit as it was not enjoyable at all and what I was hearing did not line up with the impressions others had posted.

Then this past week I pulled out my RAD-0, which ironically is a picky as F*ck headphone, and guess what? It sounded pretty damn good, I was perplexed at this development so this whole week I have only been listening to this combo. After 4-5 nights the initial aha moment still holds.

So two thoughts; 1) My ears are jacked and I don’t hear how others hear, or 2) Those impressions were full of shiite and paid lip service to a boutique unobtainable amp?

I need to get my hands on another set of planar headphones to confirm my theory, another thought is perhaps this amp was not intended for all Focal headphones, hence why the Utopia (both models) were blah?

[Souldriver]

Wasnt there a non-F version too? I feel like i remember that from SBAF. Is it possible there was a mix up on what the amp actually is?

[Camus]

I am pretty sure it is a 3F as it does not have any output transformers, which the 3 does.

There are quite a few variations, some of which must be one-offs. Here is some info I gathered from researching, it is a bit long so will do that funny expand function for those interested the details:

Summary

All of these circuits are fully differential. Everything except the DSHA2 is transformer coupled on both the input and the output and happy with balanced or single ended. All of the output transformers are newly custom designed by Lundahl for me. Available with steel core or amorphous cores for an upcharge.

DSHA2 is really tiny, direct coupled, transformer gain amplifier for use with balanced headphones…

DSHA3 is kind of the default amp. It uses transformers for gain, and it is very clean, very quiet, and just works well. Gain is low, but it has the power to push pretty much any headphone.

DSST1 (which stands for Differential Solid State Triode) was developed with PretentiousFood. It looks the same as the DSHA3 from the outside, and it uses a circuit that emulates triodes with transistors. It has a bit of a bloomier midrange, can have higher gain, and is easier to drive at the cost of a little more background noise.

Copenhagen-S also looks the same and has a punchier bouncier happier more midrangey sound. It is the “Solid State Pentode” amp making it kind of a current source/transconductance amp. (Copenhagen-V, the tube version, is on hiatus.)

L3 has tubes in it and costs a little more. Pics to come in about 2 weeks.

Ravenswood (DSHA4) is basically a DSHA3 with an additional driver stage, microprocessor controlled gain and input, and is big and powerful and over the top.

T5 which is effectively a DSHA output stage with tube gain

It’s not a particularly new amp, actually. The amp in question is the DSHA3F (“F” because it was developed for Focals). It is basically the same as the DSHA3 except it does not have any output transformers. It still has input transformers.

The DSHA3 is also called the Ravenswood, or Ravenswood/DSHA3. This is different from the Ravenswood/DSHA4 which has the same output stage as the '3 but adds a driver stage.

So, 3F is input transformer->DSHA buffer. '3 is input transformer->DSHA buffer->output transformer. '4 is input transformer->DSHA buffer->interstage/step up transformer->DSHA buffer->output transformer.

The T4 and the 3F do share similarities in the topology of the output stage, but the implementation is very different. The T4 is high voltage, low current with a step down transformer (and a DC blocking capacitor) while the 3F is high current, low voltage and is DC coupled. (The 3 - as opposed to the 3F - uses an output transformer, but no DC blocking cap.)

The T4 has a single ended input with a tube LTP stage for gain and splitting. The 3F has an input transformer for gain and splitting.

3F is generally the better Focal option, but it is for balanced phones only.

[Robson]

@Camus

Then this past week I pulled out my RAD-0, which ironically is a picky as F*ck headphone

I am very interested in your experience with the RAD-0 overall, as your statement kind of surprised me… What have you used it with, and had you come to that conclusion?

I ask only because I have a RAD-0, and have had no issues driving it or found it especially picky but I could have lucked out…

I started out with a BF2/Jot 2, which was pretty nice sounding but the Rosson is capable of much more.

Now, I have Yggy OG and a Burson Soloist GT, and it is pretty f’ing fantastic with the Rosson. I also have a Flux FA-10 “Limited” which is more upper mid-fi, but still sounds pretty great with the RAD-0.

In any case, I know ymmv and all that, but I’ve actually felt it was on the less fussy side.

IDK

[Camus]

@Robson

I am very interested in your experience with the RAD-0 overall, as your statement kind of surprised me… What have you used it with, and had you come to that conclusion?

You are not the only one who is surprised when I share my experience with the RAD-0, especially amongst other owners who are friends!

I will preface my experiences are most likely related to the power/current needs of the RAD-0; 29 Ω @ 98 dB/mW.

I will come back to this again after I share my experiences with the amps I own driving the RADs:

Tube Amps

• DNA Stratus
  This is my main daily amp, the RAD comes of as slow and sluggish which for me translates into a boring listen compared to my other cans with the Stratus and my solid state amps. I have rolled the rectifier tube several times and found the 5U4GB, which one my RAD friends gifted me to help lessen the sluggishness.
  In general the Stratus is not the ideal tube amp when it comes to planar headphones, two exceptions in my experience were the LCD-4 and Caldera.

• A&S Kenzie/Forge , the issues above are less prevalent but still there. My conclusion is the extra power on hand increases the current needed to get the RAD moving

Solid State Amps

• Naim XS3
  When using the headphone output of this integrated amp the RAD gets moving and is one of the my favorite pairings as it is crisp and clean without being fatiguing. I don’t know what the specs are on the headphone stage, Naim only indicates it is Class A.

• Chord TT2
  Using its headphone output from the front (Need to state this as I have seen users connect directly to the XLR outputs on the rear), this is my favorite pairing with the RAD and ironically the first time I heard the RAD which led me to want to have it in my collection. The TT2 gave it plenty of heft, speed, and overall got my head bobbing.

• Pass HPA-1
  This pairing is interesting for me, as it creates a more intimate and balanced presentation. The RAD is inherently intimate, the Pass enhances this and other qualities the RAD brings to the table. It also brings a lot of speed to the drivers, there was a point where I thought this pairing lacked bass then realized it was hitting the bass hard AND fast. Like a snap of a whip fast.

The above three are my favorite pairings with the RAD, while the following solid state amps pair well they are not the amps I would plug into first.

• Bryston BHA-1
  Of all my solid state amps, this one is the Swiss army knife where it may not be the most resolving, or have the most neutral signature. It is the amp you turn on and listen without thinking about it. On the RAD it gave a nice warm and wide presentation. It can come across as exaggerated at times, and despite this I find it enjoyable when my brain is tired and I just want to sit back and listen.

• EC Black Widow
  A bit too bloated, and sluggish. Similar to using the A&S amp in solid state form. I am a bit biased on this amp as paired with my HD650 it is hard for other cans to compete against.

• Chord Mojo
  It did the job, but left a lot on the table. Given its a portable it is great for that use case

Overall I agree with you on driving it with just about anything, hell I can drive it with my phone. However that does not mean it’s ideal, similar how folks can drive the Susvara on most amps which are budget or low powered. Yet match it with the right one and it clicks, I feel the RAD is the same way due to its specs.

I mentioned this above and wanted to conclude with some numbers using one of the many headphone/amp calculators found online. Having a look at some tables for the RAD-0, LCD-4, and Verite for comparisons, have a look specifically at the mA requirements for each as you increase dB:

Summary

Power/Drive Requirements
Rosson Audio Design - RAD-0
(29 Ω @ 98 dB/mW)
SPL (dB)	Required
	V (rms)	mA (rms)	mW
80	0.021	0.739	0.016
85	0.038	1.315	0.050
88	0.054	1.857	0.100
90	0.068	2.338	0.158
91	0.076	2.623	0.200
94	0.107	3.705	0.398
95	0.121	4.157	0.501

Power/Drive Requirements
Audeze - LCD-4
(200 Ω @ 97 dB/mW)
SPL (dB)	Required
	V (rms)	mA (rms)	mW
80	0.063	0.316	0.020
85	0.112	0.562	0.063
88	0.159	0.793	0.126
90	0.200	0.999	0.200
91	0.224	1.121	0.251
94	0.317	1.583	0.501
95	0.355	1.776	0.631

Power/Drive Requirements
ZMF - Vérité
(300 Ω @ 97 dB/mW)
SPL (dB)	Required
	V (rms)	mA (rms)	mW
80	0.077	0.258	0.020
85	0.138	0.459	0.063
88	0.194	0.648	0.126
90	0.245	0.816	0.200
91	0.275	0.915	0.251
94	0.388	1.293	0.501
95	0.435	1.450	0.631

I hope this helps explain where I am coming from with my comment regarding the RAD-0, realize this is way more than you asked for and it has been something I have been struggling with once I owned the RADs and was disappointed when my beloved blue amp was a crap pairing.

[Robson]

Wow, that’s very interesting, and quite comprehensive!

I do see what you’re saying from the table, and admittedly I never tried it with my tube amp because I know it’s not capable of driving it properly.

Both the solid state amps I have are relative beasts, capable of driving most anything so the RAD-0 never taxed them in any significant way. I know the headphone is low impedance and current hungry like many planars, which does call for some planning on what you try to drive it with to do it justice.

Of my much smaller sample size the Burson is easily the most resolving, and with an expansive soundstage it makes the Rosson sound just beautiful. It’s such a fun, punchy, enjoyable headphone that I think it’s one of my favorites.

In any case, as Mr. Spock would say, “fascinating”!

[Camus]

@Robson

Of my much smaller sample size the Burson is easily the most resolving, and with an expansive soundstage it makes the Rosson sound just beautiful. It’s such a fun, punchy, enjoyable headphone that I think it’s one of my favorites.

At the end of the day this is the only factor which matters, your enjoyment. I may seem like a gear collector, that’s not accurate: I’m a hoarder who enjoys experiencing music. I could say f*ck it and be perfectly content with only AirPods

[NickMimi]

@Camus

: I’m a hoarder who enjoys experiencing music. I could say f*ck it and be perfectly content with only AirPods

That’s a very fitting signature line for some of us…

[Robson]

Now that I’ve had my Nitsch a bit over a week, I think I’ve had enough listening time to form some conclusions. Nitsch has produced a winner here, and congratulations to Christian are in order. He has faithfully recreated the DSHA-3F, from what I can tell.

First, everything I’ve heard or read that’s positive about the DSHA-3F is true. In general it is remarkable with the right headphones, with an utterly black background (lowest noise floor) compared to anything I’ve heard to date.

It is incredibly resolving, unpacking complex musical passages such that I can hear individual instruments and their placement in space in a really remarkable way. It’s soundstage is very three dimensional and expansive.

At the same time, it is very punchy and dynamic, resolving the deepest bass while having very clean but sweet sounding midrange, with great treble detail. It is described as having some tube like euphony. I can’t say, as I have no basis for comparison, but I know others here have tube amp listening experience and have commented on that.

I’ve listened to all kinds of genres with it, including rock, reggae, electronic/EDM, jazz, and classical symphonic and ensemble. It just gets out of the way of the music, immersing you in what you are listening to.

I’ve used mostly the “usual suspects” with it, namely Focal and ZMF.

It is designed for Focal, and wow, what can I say. The Utopia (2020) is simply phenomenal with it, as is the Clear (OG). In fact, I’ve never heard the Clear sound so good, which is a bit of a shocker. It actually sounded closer to the Utopia than I’ve ever heard it, or thought possible.

In any case, it elevated Utopia to a place I’ve not quite heard it before. I’ve used Utopia with a Burson Soloist 3X GT previously. Which is a surprisingly excellent match.

Nontheless, I hear an improvement in overall dynamics, fine detail resolution, and soundstage compared with the Burson (which is no slouch in any of those categories). It is trite but true that I’ve not heard the Utopia at this level.

Similarly, with the ZMF Atrium (open) the Nitsch is a great match. I have always felt the Atrium paired extremely well with the Burson in how they complement each other tonally. The DSHA-3 is even incrementally better in detail extraction, while preserving the beautiful tonality, soundstage, and punchiness of the Atrium.

The Verite Open is also quite excellent, and has been covered extensively in other discussions of the amp. I have no hesitation in saying this also makes a good (great) combination.

One surprise here is that the amp works decently well with the Rosson RAD-0 planar, as @Camus indicated. I definitely had hesitations or concerns about how it would pair, as many planars are for sure no go. The RAD-0 is 29ohm impedance rated at 98dB/mW, but it is current hungry!

The Nitsch will drive it with some authority and slam, and sounds really pretty damn good. But it doesn’t have quite the bass authority as the Burson, and the Rosson is a better pairing overall with the Burson…

Which leaves me in a bit of a conundrum in that I can’t really justify having 2 expensive amps! Especially when it’s for just 1 pair of headphones. Although the used resale value on the Burson is pretty grim, so I don’t quite know what I’ll do yet.

In any case, I look forward to what other Nitsch owners have to say. It is a pretty phenomenal sounding amp!

[Camus]

Nice write up, glad you are enjoying the amp. Thanks for the confirmation I was not losing my head about the RAD.